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Normal Topic B76: Best line against 10.Kb1. (Read 10012 times)
Glenn Snow
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Re: Best line against 10.Kb1.
Reply #8 - 02/27/11 at 21:00:21
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In the variation with 12...exf6 (1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 Nc6 8.Qd2 Bg7 9.0-0-0 d5 10.Kb1 Nxd4 11.e5 Nf5 12.exf6 exf6) I still think 13.Bc5! is the most critical continuation.  After 13...d4 14.Bxf8 Qxf8 15.Nb5 Ne3 16.Re1 f5 17.f4 Qc5 18.c3 Nxf1 19.Re8+ Bf8 20.Qxd4 Qxb5 21.Qd8 Nd2+! 22.Kc2! Qa4+ 23.Kc1 Qxe8! 24.Qxe8 Ne4 25.Rd1 Nf6, White has a few different Queen moves to try and pose problems.  Right now I think Black can hold his own but this is another variation where I'd say the winning chances were mostly with White.  The line is so complicated though that I wouldn't call it strictly a two result variation.
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Best line against 10.Kb1.
Reply #7 - 02/27/11 at 20:26:58
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XChess1971 wrote on 02/26/11 at 15:46:43:
Swiss_Dragon wrote on 02/26/11 at 14:49:05:
keerik wrote on 02/26/11 at 13:30:09:
What do you think of this variation in queen sac line 17.Bb5 a6 18.Ba4 Rfd8 19.Qe2 Rd4 20.Bb3 Bb3 21.ab Rad8 22.g4?What is the idea of 22...Bh4,as played by swiss dragon?What do you think of Vocaruto's 22...g5?


Well, the idea of 22...Bh4 was to prevent White' plan of h4, g5 followed by h5. The move 22...g5 has the same idea.
At that time 22.g4 was new to me and 22...Bh4 was an over-the-board idea, maybe not the best one. However the computer gives White an advantage after 22...g5 and other moves as well. So I would hesitate to play the same line again.


Does the computer show a way to win or a possible plan?. I doubt it. Unless it shows you a way to improve or maybe gain some more material. The queen sacrifice is still under investigation. Most of the time computers don't understand positions with unbalanced material.


I'm not sure White can win by force after either of those two moves but then again despite Dzindi's recommendation, I'm not sure 22.g4 is White's best move.  I've wondered if 22.g3!? with an eventual followup of h4 then g4 wasn't better.  I suppose it depends on what Black can do in the meantime.
  
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XChess1971
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Re: Best line against 10.Kb1.
Reply #6 - 02/26/11 at 15:46:43
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Swiss_Dragon wrote on 02/26/11 at 14:49:05:
keerik wrote on 02/26/11 at 13:30:09:
What do you think of this variation in queen sac line 17.Bb5 a6 18.Ba4 Rfd8 19.Qe2 Rd4 20.Bb3 Bb3 21.ab Rad8 22.g4?What is the idea of 22...Bh4,as played by swiss dragon?What do you think of Vocaruto's 22...g5?


Well, the idea of 22...Bh4 was to prevent White' plan of h4, g5 followed by h5. The move 22...g5 has the same idea.
At that time 22.g4 was new to me and 22...Bh4 was an over-the-board idea, maybe not the best one. However the computer gives White an advantage after 22...g5 and other moves as well. So I would hesitate to play the same line again.


Does the computer show a way to win or a possible plan?. I doubt it. Unless it shows you a way to improve or maybe gain some more material. The queen sacrifice is still under investigation. Most of the time computers don't understand positions with unbalanced material.
  
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Swiss_Dragon
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Re: Best line against 10.Kb1.
Reply #5 - 02/26/11 at 14:49:05
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keerik wrote on 02/26/11 at 13:30:09:
What do you think of this variation in queen sac line 17.Bb5 a6 18.Ba4 Rfd8 19.Qe2 Rd4 20.Bb3 Bb3 21.ab Rad8 22.g4?What is the idea of 22...Bh4,as played by swiss dragon?What do you think of Vocaruto's 22...g5?


Well, the idea of 22...Bh4 was to prevent White' plan of h4, g5 followed by h5. The move 22...g5 has the same idea.
At that time 22.g4 was new to me and 22...Bh4 was an over-the-board idea, maybe not the best one. However the computer gives White an advantage after 22...g5 and other moves as well. So I would hesitate to play the same line again.
  
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keerik
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Re: Best line against 10.Kb1.
Reply #4 - 02/26/11 at 13:30:09
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What do you think of this variation in queen sac line 17.Bb5 a6 18.Ba4 Rfd8 19.Qe2 Rd4 20.Bb3 Bb3 21.ab Rad8 22.g4?What is the idea of 22...Bh4,as played by swiss dragon?What do you think of Vocaruto's 22...g5?
  
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bragesjo
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Re: Best line against 10.Kb1.
Reply #3 - 02/13/11 at 19:25:34
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I my view after Rb8 h4 is strong but Carlsen has also played Rb8 so I dont know since I dint play this line as white.
  
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keerik
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Re: Best line against 10.Kb1.
Reply #2 - 02/12/11 at 18:52:24
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What do you think about 10....Rb8?Are there any problems for black?If you want I can post my game,where my opponent played 11.Be2.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: Best line against 10.Kb1.
Reply #1 - 02/12/11 at 12:04:06
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I assume that you meen 9 0-0-0 d5 10 Kb1

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4.
Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. Be3 Bg7 7. f3 O-O 8. Qd2 Nc6 9. O-O-O d5 10. Kb1 Nxd4 11.
e5 Nf5 12. exf6 exf6

Is an interesting line. If 13 Bc5 than d4 creates interesting imbalances. Not shure who is better, but both Carlsen and Radjabov has played this line as black.

13 Nxd5 Nxd5 Nxe3 14. Qxe3 is supposted to be critical line but after Be6 15. Bc4 f5 16. c3 Qh4 17. f4 Bxd5 18. Bxd5 Rae8 19. Qd2 b5 I think the position is far from clear. Is is true that blacks has a double pawn and f7 is potentielly weaker than b2, engines calls it equal, perhaps becouse of opposote coloured Bishops.

I dont belive that Queen Sac line is correct if white plays Bb5 variation. Black can probely hold but the best he can hope for is a draw.
  
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keerik
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B76: Best line against 10.Kb1.
02/11/11 at 16:03:50
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In my 5 last dragon games 2 of my opponest has chosen this variation.Once I trien 10...Rb8 followed by pawn sacrifice,but I feel in this line white is better.In my secon game I tried queen sac line,but I didn't know theory very well, so I lost.Is queen sac line correct or not?What is the best line to play against 17.Bb5?
Thanks,keerik
« Last Edit: 08/09/11 at 00:50:17 by MNb »  
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