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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Yugoslav with 8.dxc5 (Read 38048 times)
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Re: Yugoslav with 8.dxc5
Reply #64 - 10/11/16 at 15:31:48
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Any comments on Lemos' coverage of 9.Be3?
  
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BPaulsen
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Re: Yugoslav with 8.dxc5
Reply #63 - 10/09/12 at 19:40:16
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Vass wrote on 10/09/12 at 06:38:54:
Yes, 8.d5 is the right way to go, imho..
And I don't understand why after 8.dxc5 dxc5 9.Be3 I have to play 9....Ng4 when 9...Qa5 is leading to equality.
I play this as a second player since 1978 and my approach is refined through all these years. It's easy to remember OTB.. 9.Be3 or 9.Bf4 - no worry, 9...Qa5 is my answer! The ideas behind are easy to understand - attacking c4-pawn with Qa6, exchanging queens if Qd1-a4 followed by b7-b6..., Bd7 on Qb3..., Nf6-d7 in case of Nc3-d5...and Nc6-d4 if white stands still..  Wink
Never lost a game as a second player after 8.dxc5..
And never met this setup in my correspondence chess tries. Everyone goes for 8.d5, you know..


9...Ng4 is just what I went with to kill the thread due to how cut and dry it is. 9.Be3 Qa5 has some question marks remaining.
  

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Re: Yugoslav with 8.dxc5
Reply #62 - 10/09/12 at 14:02:09
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TN wrote on 10/09/12 at 07:14:03:
One shouldn't forget the possibility of 7.d5, which will transpose to the Fianchetto Modern Benoni after 7...e6 8.Nc3 exd5 9.cxd5.


As far as I know, 8. de (intending 8...Bxe6 9. Ng5) has long been considered good for White -- better than the version with Nc3 in lieu of 0-0 (it involves the availability of Na3 versus Black's exchange sac).
  
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Re: Yugoslav with 8.dxc5
Reply #61 - 10/09/12 at 07:14:03
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One shouldn't forget the possibility of 7.d5, which will transpose to the Fianchetto Modern Benoni after 7...e6 8.Nc3 exd5 9.cxd5. There's also 7.Nc3 cxd4 of course, but let's not drift too much from the thread subject.
  

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Re: Yugoslav with 8.dxc5
Reply #60 - 10/09/12 at 06:38:54
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Yes, 8.d5 is the right way to go, imho..
And I don't understand why after 8.dxc5 dxc5 9.Be3 I have to play 9....Ng4 when 9...Qa5 is leading to equality.
I play this as a second player since 1978 and my approach is refined through all these years. It's easy to remember OTB.. 9.Be3 or 9.Bf4 - no worry, 9...Qa5 is my answer! The ideas behind are easy to understand - attacking c4-pawn with Qa6, exchanging queens if Qd1-a4 followed by b7-b6..., Bd7 on Qb3..., Nf6-d7 in case of Nc3-d5...and Nc6-d4 if white stands still..  Wink
Never lost a game as a second player after 8.dxc5..
And never met this setup in my correspondence chess tries. Everyone goes for 8.d5, you know..
  
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Re: Yugoslav with 8.dxc5
Reply #59 - 10/09/12 at 01:02:13
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I don't mind a +0.20 ending if white's going somewhere.

But he's not in this case.

Anyway, hopefully someone gets something out of this thread as black. I stand by 8.d5 as the better try for an edge, but that analysis I will not post regardless of the forum banter. Wink
  

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Re: Yugoslav with 8.dxc5
Reply #58 - 10/08/12 at 16:11:54
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I notice that the late Bob Wade gave 9...Ng4 as weak, citing Darga-Barendregt (and mentioning 10. Qxd8 as "!?").  Looks none too plausible, I'd say.
  
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Re: Yugoslav with 8.dxc5
Reply #57 - 10/08/12 at 15:41:02
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BPaulsen wrote on 10/08/12 at 14:56:47:
11...f5 just looks too cooperative. 11...Bxb2 and... how's white justifying the pawn sacrifice? 12. Rb1 Bg7 just looks fine for black. Maybe you could argue some kind of compensation, but no advantage at all that I can see.

You are right. And while 11.Na4 offers more practical chances, it seems that Black is alive. Rybka's +0.20 doesn't mean much in an ending.
  
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Re: Yugoslav with 8.dxc5
Reply #56 - 10/08/12 at 14:56:47
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11...f5 just looks too cooperative. 11...Bxb2 and... how's white justifying the pawn sacrifice? 12. Rb1 Bg7 just looks fine for black. Maybe you could argue some kind of compensation, but no advantage at all that I can see.
  

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Re: Yugoslav with 8.dxc5
Reply #55 - 10/08/12 at 13:37:28
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BPaulsen wrote on 10/06/12 at 00:43:06:
I'd admit defeat if someone can just come up with a small pull for white that could reasonably turn into something. As of now...I don't see it. I feel like forcing an advantage for white here is like finding one in the Exchange French. Cheesy

True, a repertoire book for White recommending the Exchange French would be a surprise. Nevertheless 11.Ne4 might give White something. White's king, at least, is very safe at g1, while the same cannot be said about Black's. Not the worst case if an author wants to make 1.Nf3 attractive.


  
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Re: Yugoslav with 8.dxc5
Reply #54 - 10/06/12 at 10:38:12
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gewgaw wrote on 02/27/11 at 19:38:09:
1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 g6 3. c4 c5 4. g3 Bg7 5. Bg2 O-O 6. O-O d6 7. Nc3 Nc6

Who knows a good source to this line? Actually I don´t wanna play 8.d5, because I don´t play against the KID this way. What about 8.dc5 dc5 9.Be3 ? It seems Avrukh doesn´t cover this line in his Vol. 2.


Since things have calmed down I'll attempt to answer the original question:

1) Avrukh would have white play d4-d5 as soon as ...c7-c5 hit the board, which is why he doesn't cover it.
2) If white is careful with his move order - delaying Nc3 and playing d2-d4 as soon as black plays ...c7-c5 or ...d7-d6

Then the line 7 dxc5 dxc5 8 Ne5!? can be played.  This is analysed in Wojo's Weapons vol 2.  White has a tremendous score in practice (77% on my database of TWIC games) even if black can equalise.  I haven't looked at this in depth though, so can't offer much more than this.  Smiley
  
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Re: Yugoslav with 8.dxc5
Reply #53 - 10/06/12 at 00:43:06
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We can move on to 9.Bf4 if we all have an agreement that 9.Be3 Ng4 is nothing for white.

For what it's worth, Vass' analysis looks like nothing for white, and even 9.Bf4 Nd4 (notice the similarity to 9.Be3 Ng4 10.Bf4 Nd4 that TN proposed) is depressing for white if he wants to win.

I'd admit defeat if someone can just come up with a small pull for white that could reasonably turn into something. As of now...I don't see it. I feel like forcing an advantage for white here is like finding one in the Exchange French. Cheesy
  

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Re: Yugoslav with 8.dxc5
Reply #52 - 10/05/12 at 16:06:27
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OK. Enough from me. Sorry everybody:)
  
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Re: Yugoslav with 8.dxc5
Reply #51 - 10/05/12 at 12:21:12
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[quote author=7F7C7670110 link=1298835491/50#50 date=1349431596]Bibs #29 and GabrielGale #47 – great posts. Bewildering to me that quarrels (which, as here, are usually over something utterly pettifogging) can get to this pass. Thread-pruning surely long overdue. Do moderators, or feuders, ever stop to consider what thoughts this puerile stuff could be provoking among chessplayers at large? (As in: ‘If this is the famous ChessPublishing, maybe I won’t bother.’)[/quote]

Moderator hat...ON.

Fair point re: pruning and moderating.
Prefer a light, whimsical touch, but have to get out the shears if there is any more arguing. Any more bickering and the whole Paulsen-TNich "It's pretty equal"/"no, it's a draw" nonsense will be deleted wholesale.
No more attacks from either please. Many here can't be bothered with the playground stuff. Thanks both of you.

Some chess analysis has broken out (particular thanks to GabrielGale), yeah, let's see some moves people.
Enjoy your chess, and have a jolly weekend there you good people.
  
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Re: Yugoslav with 8.dxc5
Reply #50 - 10/05/12 at 10:06:36
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Bibs #29 and GabrielGale #47 – great posts. Bewildering to me that quarrels (which, as here, are usually over something utterly pettifogging) can get to this pass. Thread-pruning surely long overdue. Do moderators, or feuders, ever stop to consider what thoughts this puerile stuff could be provoking among chessplayers at large? (As in: ‘If this is the famous ChessPublishing, maybe I won’t bother.’)
  
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