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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What to do against 1.d4 e6!? (Read 20574 times)
walkingterrapin
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Why play the Colle when
you can play 1.e4!!!!!!!!!

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Re: What to do against 1.d4 e6!?
Reply #27 - 06/07/11 at 17:49:28
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If you are afraid of the dutch then either play 2. Qd3 or play 2. c4 f5 then play 3. g4.  those are both good anti dutch systems also you could play 3. h3.  I wouldnt be afraid of the e6 Dutch though.  just fianchettoe your bishop f1 and win.
  
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Arcticmonkey
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Re: What to do against 1.d4 e6!?
Reply #26 - 05/25/11 at 15:28:06
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MNb wrote on 05/24/11 at 20:04:23:
Be proud on your first prize, sonny/pal/bloke.
Thanks for the excellent chess content of your last post.  Lips Sealed


8600 comments and you're still as immature as they come.
I could say that that comment also had no chess content whatsoever (and the one before that as well), but i think it was a completely misdirected attempt to be funny.
Anyway, if a moderator sees this, close this thread.
  
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MNb
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Re: What to do against 1.d4 e6!?
Reply #25 - 05/24/11 at 20:04:23
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Be proud on your first prize, sonny/pal/bloke.
Thanks for the excellent chess content of your last post.  Lips Sealed
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Arcticmonkey
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Re: What to do against 1.d4 e6!?
Reply #24 - 05/24/11 at 12:42:09
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No 2nd prizes dude
  
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MNb
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Re: What to do against 1.d4 e6!?
Reply #23 - 05/23/11 at 21:55:23
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Arcticmonkey wrote on 05/23/11 at 14:48:31:
Bloke seems derogatory,

So does dude.

Arcticmonkey wrote on 05/22/11 at 12:55:10:
Think you answered your own question dude.

  

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Arcticmonkey
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Re: What to do against 1.d4 e6!?
Reply #22 - 05/23/11 at 14:48:31
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Ooookk for someone who has posted about 8500 comments you need to chill out.
My point was that these were (what i believe) are the most critical systems against the london and now you cant play them because ...e6 is inserted.
Your otb score doesnt count at all, (statistically).
If you want to talk about recent material, then Summerscale and Johnsen covers in 'A Killer Chess Opening Repertoire' (2010), so it cant be that bad.
Bloke seems derogatory, i much like other people calling me a fine, educated, young gentlemen with astute views on life, love and pink floyd.
  
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MNb
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Re: What to do against 1.d4 e6!?
Reply #21 - 05/22/11 at 20:19:39
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When White wants to play something like the London I want more than sheer equality. The Dutch with ...e6 provides this. So I have otb an excellent score against d-pawn setups, so yes, I like it a lot, no matter what your opinion on ...e6 is, sonny.
Williams having spend an entire paragraph on 3.d5 means that this move is rated exactly for what it's worth, pal.
Finally you might have noticed that this thread is on 1...e6, so your remarks on ...Bf5 and ...Bg4 are irrelevant here, bloke.
  

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Arcticmonkey
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Re: What to do against 1.d4 e6!?
Reply #20 - 05/22/11 at 12:55:10
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MNb wrote on 05/22/11 at 10:50:37:
How do you mean underrated? Williams (2003!) spends a paragraph to 3.d5 and offers two antidotes, 3...Bd6 and 3...Bb4+. A third one is 3...exd5 4.Qxd5 Nf6 5.Qxf5 d5 and we are in a BDG with colours reversed, no extra tempo for White and a misplaced Queen.
Against the London Black can play a promising setup with a Queenside Fianchetto and ...Ne4. Also check the game Wells-Summerscale, Edinburgh 2003.
Against the Colle Black can play a decent Stonewall or a Queenside Fianchetto again.


You seem to really like Black. Obviously Black has decent responses to both London and Colle. However i think the best systems are generally without ...e6.
For example 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 now either 3...Bf5 or 3...Bg4 and Black might be equal already since this will likely tranpose to a not very critical line of the slav (although popular amongst GM's).
Think you answered your own question dude. 'Williams spend a paragraph to 3.d5'
  
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MNb
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Re: What to do against 1.d4 e6!?
Reply #19 - 05/22/11 at 10:50:37
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How do you mean underrated? Williams (2003!) spends a paragraph to 3.d5 and offers two antidotes, 3...Bd6 and 3...Bb4+. A third one is 3...exd5 4.Qxd5 Nf6 5.Qxf5 d5 and we are in a BDG with colours reversed, no extra tempo for White and a misplaced Queen.
Against the London Black can play a promising setup with a Queenside Fianchetto and ...Ne4. Also check the game Wells-Summerscale, Edinburgh 2003.
Against the Colle Black can play a decent Stonewall or a Queenside Fianchetto again.
  

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Arcticmonkey
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Re: What to do against 1.d4 e6!?
Reply #18 - 05/22/11 at 07:14:18
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Oh against 1.d4 f5, i mostly play 2.Bg5
now if 2...h6 either 3.Bf4!? or the normal 3.Bh4 are both good.

In fact, i think the colle is good here as well as london and i disagree that Black can easily play something like ...d6 and ...e5 to chase away my bishop. I could just play h3 and bishop runs to h2. Plus, that totally takes a long time to setup and White's not going to be idle while this is going on. Probably prepare an e4 break or something. My point is that the best anti-london systems are always without ...e6.
E.g. 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d5 and i think 3.Bf4!? is probably not best because of 3...c5 and, 4...Nc6 and 5...Qb6. Oh yea, the light squared bishop isnt trapped. Also, the KID setup is good against london, thats also without ...e6

In any case i think the most likely 2.Nf3 f5 3.d5 is my solution. Totally underrated
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: What to do against 1.d4 e6!?
Reply #17 - 05/11/11 at 17:06:11
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I once met 1.d4 e6 with 2.g3!? against a 2300 player.  He played 2...f5 and we went straight into Stonewall country.

However, as soon as I played 2.g3 I realized that Black's best is probably the immediate 2...c5!  White really has to play 3.Nf3 and then I thought that Black could make good use of his not having played ...Nf6 yet in this soon-to-be English position. 

I'm no expert on the English but I would think that 1.d4 e6 2.g3 c5 3.Nf3 should work out pretty well for Black after either 3...cxd4 or 3...Nc6.  Thoughts?
  
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alyechin
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Re: What to do against 1.d4 e6!?
Reply #16 - 05/11/11 at 15:48:33
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If you fear 1 d4 e6 2 c4 f5 offer a draw. If your oponent doesn't take the draw, resign! Roll Eyes
  
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Vulpes
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Re: What to do against 1.d4 e6!?
Reply #15 - 05/11/11 at 13:39:15
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If you fear 1.d4 e6 2.c4 because of 2. ..f5, what do you play against 1.d4 f5? o.o
  

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MNb
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Re: What to do against 1.d4 e6!?
Reply #14 - 03/28/11 at 03:05:48
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TN wrote on 03/28/11 at 00:43:16:
After 5...Bd2 I quite like 6.Nd2, for instance 6...0-0 7.Ngf3 d6 8.0-0 Nc6 9.Qb3 Kh8 10.d5 and White has a useful space advantage and can hope to play e4 in the future, Tjiam-Naumkin, Montecatini Terme op 2000.

I'd rather follow Grünberg-Knaak, Dresden 1988. White won, but Black's play can be improved. I'm not sure if 9...Kh8 is necessary either. 9...Nc6 10.d5 Nd8 11.dxe6 (or Black will play 11...e5) Nxe6 doesn't look scary.
Even better might be immediately 6...d6 7.Ngf3 Qe7 8.0-0 e5. Without a Knight on c6 the thrust d4-d5 loses a lot of its force. As Taimanov already pointed out in 1980: if Black plays ...Nc6 in the Dutch he/she has to be ready for d4-d5. So it should be nice to play ...e5 with the Knight still on b8.
Williams recommends via a slightly different move order 6...Qe7 7.Ngf3 Nc6, but I don't like it that much.
All in all there are some options for Black.
  

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TN
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Re: What to do against 1.d4 e6!?
Reply #13 - 03/28/11 at 00:43:16
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MNb wrote on 03/15/11 at 18:05:49:
Markovich wrote on 03/15/11 at 14:38:45:
But to respond on topic, I think an early g3 with consent to enter one of the lines that Black wants to play is perfectly OK.  As Petrosian said, if your opponent wants to play the Dutch, you should do nothing to prevent him.

White might have some problems proving an advantage after 1.d4 e6 2.c4 f5 3.g3 Nf6 4.Bg2 Bb4+.

Sladek,V - MNb [A84]
em WS/H/187, 2009

1.d4 e6 2.c4 f5 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 Bb4+ 5.Bd2 Bxd2+ 6.Qxd2 d6 7.Bg2 Qe7 8.Nc3 0-0 9.0-0 Nc6 10.Rfe1 Ne4 11.Qc2 Nxc3 12.Qxc3 e5 13.d5 Nd8 14.c5 f4 15.cxd6 cxd6 16.Rac1 Bg4 17.Qc7 Qf6 18.Qc2 Nf7 19.Qa4 b5 20.Qe4 a5 21.Qd3 Ra7 22.Qxb5 e4 23.Nd2 fxg3 24.hxg3 Ng5 25.Qb6 Re7 26.Qe3 Bh3 27.Nxe4 Rxe4 28.Bxe4 Nxe4 29.Qxe4 Qxf2+ 30.Kh1 Rf6 31.Qe8+ Rf8 32.Qe4 ½-½

Dugushov,S - MNb [A90]
em WS/H/267, 2011

1.d4 e6 2.c4 f5 3.g3 Nf6 4.Bg2 Bb4+ 5.Nd2 0-0 6.Ngf3 b6 7.Ne5 Ne4 8.0-0 Bxd2 9.Bxd2 Bb7 Line (we are at move 19)


After 5...Bd2 I quite like 6.Nd2, for instance 6...0-0 7.Ngf3 d6 8.0-0 Nc6 9.Qb3 Kh8 10.d5 and White has a useful space advantage and can hope to play e4 in the future, Tjiam-Naumkin, Montecatini Terme op 2000.

Maybe 8...Qe7 is preferable, but after 9.Qb3 Kh8 10.Rfe1 e5 11.e4 fe4 12.Ne4 White had the better chances in Ricardi-Karlsson, Novi Sad Olympiad 1990, even though he went on to lose.
  

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