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Normal Topic The Schliemann deferred as a surprise weapon? (Read 5905 times)
kylemeister
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Re: The Schliemann deferred as a surprise weapon?
Reply #6 - 03/16/11 at 15:04:07
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Re "improving on Sokolov":  the line mentioned above was already given as much better for White by encyclopedias in the 1990s.
  
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NeverGiveUp
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Re: The Schliemann deferred as a surprise weapon?
Reply #5 - 03/16/11 at 14:16:40
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I take your point guys.

You are basically saying - play a sound opening and play sound, healthy moves - and it's hard to argue with that!

I suppose if anyone would take this on they have to improve upon Sokolov what's not going to be easy. Unless there is anyone around who has a reasonable reply to 5.d4 ed4: 6.e5 Bc5 7.0-0 Nge7 8.c3, what looks like the critical line?

For my regular replies against the Ruy I am now looking at the Open variation and the Modern Steinitz. Both of these are good solid systems that are out of fashion so will have a definite surprise element and may get white out of his comfort zone - what is what you want to achieve with an opening, whilst still playing good healthy moves.
  
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MartinC
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Re: The Schliemann deferred as a surprise weapon?
Reply #4 - 03/16/11 at 12:58:12
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There's also repeat opponents of course!

Also is this so difficult for white to work out/play if they know to go 5 d4 and sac a pawn? Seems to give white a very healthy, classical attacking position.

Its not like you're making them find multiple non intuitive moves or anything.
  
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fling
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Re: The Schliemann deferred as a surprise weapon?
Reply #3 - 03/16/11 at 12:45:57
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clickclick wrote on 03/16/11 at 10:41:53:
The OP is right to some point, I will bet my life savings that if you play it in the last few rounds of a weekend Swiss tournament, the White player will not know any further than 5.d4.

But I also agree with Fllg, IMHO there are plenty of sounder options for Black to play for a win in the Ruy. Is there anything wrong with just the normal Schliemann?


I don't like playing lines that are not sound. Even if most opponents don't know the theory on this, why would risk them still coming up with the strong continuation by just playing logical moves?

I remember my first time I played against the Albin-Countergambit (I won't say anything about its soundness). I had just started playing chess again, about 1500 in rating and played somebody with 1850-ish rating. He apparently always plays this when given the chance I learned after the game. Anyway, I devised a plan of putting my bishop on g2, but logically it seemed that I first had to secure b4 with a3 to be able to play Nbd2. I won the game without knowing anything about these variations before the game.
  
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clickclick
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Re: The Schliemann deferred as a surprise weapon?
Reply #2 - 03/16/11 at 10:41:53
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The OP is right to some point, I will bet my life savings that if you play it in the last few rounds of a weekend Swiss tournament, the White player will not know any further than 5.d4.

But I also agree with Fllg, IMHO there are plenty of sounder options for Black to play for a win in the Ruy. Is there anything wrong with just the normal Schliemann?
  
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Fllg
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Re: The Schliemann deferred as a surprise weapon?
Reply #1 - 03/15/11 at 18:23:24
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In his book "The Ruy Lopez Revisited" Ivan Sokolov calls this line to be "objectively not sound" and recommends 5.d4! exd4 6.e5 Bc5 7.0-0 Nge7 8.c3!, "when White is just better".

Unless you have some improvements for Black I would strongly advice against playing an inferior opening only because you believe your opponents won´t know or find the best moves. In my opinion there are enough sensible possibilities for Black to choose.
  
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NeverGiveUp
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The Schliemann deferred as a surprise weapon?
03/15/11 at 09:24:53
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What do you guys think of the Schliemann deferred (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 f5!?) as a surprise weapon, in particular if you need a win with black against the lopez?

It can't be all that bad since it's been played once in a world championship match, by Kortschoi against Karpov. Karpov played the main line and Kortschoi got a draw.

To play for an advantage white has to go 5.d4 ed4: 6.e5 but this is a pawn sac after 6. ... Bc5 and play is very complicated and sharp, so I expect not a lot of whites will go this route and will play 5.d3 or 5.Nc3 instead after which black has easy equality or even more, in particular after 5.Nc3?! where you can go 5. ... fe4:! 6.Ne4: b5 7.Bb3 d5 and black is already better.

No one plays it nowadays, so most whites will not have a clue, not unless they're a grandmaster and know everything.

What do you guys think - is this a line to be recommended then?
  
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