Fear not, Motorhead. I am here, and I will indeed proceed to show that, in black's rotten position, the rotten-looking 5...Qe7 isn't a paradoxical saving grace.

So, after 1.d4 e5 2.de Nc6 3.Nf3 f6 4.e4! fe (I wonder if black might be better served leaving the pawn on e5 and developing around it... ) 5.Bc4 Qe7?!, 6.Nc3 looks the logical move, threatening 6.Nd5 and therefore preventing the 6...Nd8 manoeuvre, so let's look at this first.

6.Nc3 Nf6 7.O-O does look strongest (the black queen obviously intends to move from e7, so why pin a knight to a moving target?), and we'll eliminate black's moves in order:

i) 7...Qc5? 8.Qe2! and black already has no satisfactory moves to meet the threats of Bd4 and Nb5 - e.g. 8...Be7 removes the best escape square from the queen, and after 9.Be3 black is forced to jettison a pawn with 9...Nd4 (Try 9...Qa5 10.a3 for yourself if you don't believe me!). 10.Bxd4 exd4 11.Nb5 and with ideas of b4 in the air, white will capture on d4 when he is a pawn up with better development, better attacking chances and generally just a huge advantage. +-

ii) 7...Qb4? is even worse, as white will gain tempi with a3 whilst playing similar lines to above - he is already castled to there is no point to the move.

iii) 7...Na5 is a tougher nut to crack, and indeed probably doesn't lose outright. But white just plays simply and proves how bad black's position fundamentally is, I think: 8.Bd3 c6 9.Qe2!? b5?! (Trying for activity and space - maybe 9...b6 is more circumspect but I don't believe black is holding there long-term) 10.Rd1! Nb7 11.Be3 Nc5 (Black's point, but it meets with a sticky end) 12.Bxb5!! cxb5 13.Nxb5 and black's position seems to be collapsing, with threats of Nd6+, Nxe5 (in some lines) and Nc7+ (maybe after Qc4 first).

So maybe black instead goes with the safer 9...b6. Now he faces the same positional problems after 10.Rd1 Nb7 11.a4! - it is not clear where any of black's pieces are going to go, white's bishop will get back to c4 with interest, and black is positionally bankrupt.

Maybe instead black leaves the knight on a5 to prevent such problems, so then we have 9...b6 10.Rd1 g6!? (The best of a bad bunch) 11.a3!? Bg7 12.b4 Nb7 13.Bc4. This is not so easy to assess - black can make a game of it. However, I would opine that after 13...b5 14.Bb3 a5 15.Bb2 d6 16.Qe3!? Bg4 17.h3 Bxf3 18.Qxf3 that white has the more harmonious position, and black's king will not feel safe whichever direction it goes in. Nonetheless, this is not the utter refutation I was hoping for - maybe someone else can improve? I am away from my home at the moment so this is sadly without any help from my beloved Rybka - maybe that will be able to put some final nails in the Soller's coffin.

So let us look at some alternatives. After 6.Ng5 you suggest 6...Qb4+ 7.Nd2 Nd8, but the problem here is that maybe 8.Nxh7 comes a move too early for black. 8...Rxh7 9.Bxg8 Rh8 10.Bb3 Qb6 11.Nc4 looks like a logical series of moves, where I see nothing better for black than to go in for 11...Qg6 12.Nxe5! Qxe4+ 13.Qe2 Qxg2 14.Nf3+! Ne6 15.Rg1 Qh3 16.Be3. Can black survive? Who knows... but I'd rather not need to try. No development to speak of, rook already on a strong open file, with the other coming straight to the d-file. How does black untangle? I am still not sure he can.

So if 6...Qb4+ doesn't work, 6...Qe7 becomes less of a pointed move. Maybe 6...Nd8 is a refinement. But then doesn't 7.Nxh7 immediately do a job? 7...Rxh7 8.Bxg8 Rh8 9.Bb3 and again white is a pawn up, but black has few of the advantages he seeks in the Soller accepted - he instead has a misplaced queen, a defecit in development, and no chance of castling kingside to get the rook onto the f-file. He instead has an open h-file, but white isn't that silly, he won't go that way. Black needs to complete his development, which includes moving the Nd8 for the third time while he lost a pawn. Black's pawn on e5 actually hampers his play in the centre, too. I would say that white is close to winning. Black will at best have a few shots which shouldn't work. In reality he will be trying to grovel a pawn-down endgame. This can't be worth doing.

I'm afraid it looks like, paradoxically, declining the Soller is a total refutation of it. The irony is that I think black's compensation in the Soller accepted is totally insufficient also, but the fact that white can keep a clear advantage if not win outright whilst denying black all his fun and traps... that doesn't speak well for it.

motörhead wrote on 04/10/11 at 21:16:08:

Simply 6.0-0 and if Nf6 7.Nc3 gives white aggreable play with better development imo. Why should black play something difficult like this?

All of which demonstrates your lack of knowledge about the Kopiecki Attack! It took me 3 months of non-stop analyses, back in 1994, to memorize all the variations.
Your idea of 'catching is King in the center with Nd5' was what I originally thought, back in 1994. Deeper analyses indicated this not to be the case!

1 d4 e5 2 dxe5 Nc6 3 Nf3 Nge7 4 Bf4 Ng6 5 Bg3 Qe7
6 Nc3 Qb4! 7 Qd2 Qxb2 8 Rb1 Qa3 9 Nd5 Qxa3!

just for starters...

I don't see how Black fights for an advantage either (and I think 7.Qd2 also gives White some advantage with best play, as White can simply catch the king in the centre with Nd5 and develop normally, although 7.Rb1 does not).  However, against 7.Qc1, the latest word in the most recent "other" thread on 3...Nge7 was 7...Qc5 (Zilbermints) 8.e4 Ngxe5 9.Nxe5 Nxe5 10.Qd2 (so far analysis by TN, who claimed a clear advantage for White) 10...c6! (my suggestion, stopping Nd5 and envisaging ...b5-b4), +=.  For example, 11.Be2 b5 12.a3 a5.

Your analysis is faulty, motorhead. Here is why.

I) 1 d4 e5 2 dxe5 Nc6 3 Nf3 Nge7 4 Nc3 h6! was analyzed by me back in 1994. Stops all the Bg5 crapola that is possible after 4...Ng6 5 Bg5 etc.

II) The Klein Defence, 4 Bf4, has been very heavily analyzed. There are two ways to fight for Black advantage:

A. 4...Ng6 5 Bg3 Qe7 6 Nc3 Qb4! the Kopiecki Attack. Now if 7 Qd2, then 7...Qxb2! 8 Rb1 Qa3
gives Black the better game, since the Bg3 is out of the game. On 7 Rb1 Qa5 8 a3 there is 8...Bxa3! 9 Ra1 Bxb2+! 10 Rxa5 Bc3+ 11 Nd2 Nxa5 -+

B. 4...Bc5, the Brea Attack. I'm not sure how good it is, but from what its inventor showed me, there are some nice tactical points here. Of course, the immediate 5 Qd5 b6! sets up pressure along the a8/h1 diagonal. Black then angles for Qe7 - 000 with pressure on e5. Playable.

Gambit wrote on 04/06/11 at 01:06:59:


That is one of the very fiew ways to blow some low live in the Soller with 4.e4.

5.Nc3 Nxe5 6. Nd5 is annoying. But Black has 6...Nxf3+ 7.Qxf3 Qd8 8.Bf4 d6.
Now you cant't even say that Black is down in development, as there is no Black development at all. But at least Black is stable and he has, what Nimzowich once called "Sägestellung" (= d6 / f6 vs. e4).  I feel that Black should refrain from c7-c6 for the time being as this weakens d6. 

9.Bc4 Ne7 10.0-0-0 Ng6 is a normal continuation. Black bolsters controll over e5.

Black isn't in good shape right now. But play is slow. Yes, he can't even castle, but the King is able to leave the danger zone in the centre on his own feet. Direction Queen's Side.

I also looked at 5...fxe5 6.Nd5 Qd8 7.Bg5 and found it annoying. 7...Be7 (7...Nge7 8.Nh4) 8.Nxe7 Ngxe7 9.Nh4. Don't know...


The only alternatives I found are

1.d4 e5 2.dxe5 Nc6 3.Nf3 f6 4.e4 fxe5 5.Bc4 and now
5...Qe7!?
or
5...Qf6

all other moves fail, as we saw...

Last I looked, the Felbecker Gambit went 1 d4 e5 2 dxe5 Nc6 3 Nf3 Bc5. I think it is worth a try. Also, I should mention the Zilbermints Gambit, 3...Nge7.