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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Soller Gambit offers good chances ?? (Read 42694 times)
motörhead
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Re: Soller Gambit offers good chances ??
Reply #8 - 03/28/11 at 21:31:30
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SWJediknight wrote on 03/28/11 at 08:58:37:
After the immediate 2...f6 3.e4! is a lot stronger (reaching a position that can also arise via 1.e4 e5 2.d4 f6 3.dxe5).  If 3...Nc6 (3...fxe5 4.Qh5+) then 4.Bc4 is superior to 4.Nf3 and leads to +/- according to Bucker's 1988 book Englund Gambit, and when I checked the line with computer assistance a couple of years ago it looked pretty convincing for White.


Is Black that bad after 4.Bc4 Nxe5 ?
Bücker has this line only with +/= in his book.
  

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Re: Soller Gambit offers good chances ??
Reply #7 - 03/28/11 at 21:18:27
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Nelson wrote on 03/27/11 at 20:34:50:
Thanks Motorhead.

I'm glad I've decided to update some of the unusual defenses to 1 d4 as it seems I might be a bit out of date.

How old is Kassiber 5 as I've never seen this before.

Anyhow d6 looks like desperation to me adn I can't see where "close to equalising" comes from.

Even if white plays a typical Guioco line the loss of the d4 pawn break is less of a hindrance than the fact that Black has difficilty castling kingside and cannot play Be6 to challenge the bishop.

Perhaps the simple h3 and a4 are white best next 2 moves to indicate an obvious advantage.

Anyway I will look at it further.

Kind Regards,

Nelson  Smiley



Ha, well, I wouldn't call 5...d6 desperation. Stefan Bücker is more rationale and calls it "seemingly the only hope for the second player who wants to use the Soller with the move order 2...Nc6 3.Nf3 f6". It simply tends to hold much better than any other attempt. Okay, in his book Englund Gambit from 1988, which has 33 pages on the Soller he had given 5...d6 a "?" on basis of a bad played game. But he later changed his mind.

After all 5...Nf6 is much more desperation. Driven by the despair to win every single game even with Black at all costs, Black decides to pay with a theoretically clear loss
Grin
May work against those who fear the dark. But it's simply  not more than a trapp. And what a silly one it is. White only needs to be gready enough to collect clear advantage: 6.Ng5 Bc5 7.Nf7 Bxf2+ 8.Kxf2 Nxe4 9.Kg1. Not too dificult to find it otb.

On 5...d6 your 6.h3 stops Bc8-g4 but gives just enough time for Black to build up for defence.
Stefan Bücker in Kaissiber 5/1998 gave 6...Nf6 7.Ng5 Qe7 and stops. Black has avoided a fork on f7. Yes, there is 8.Bf7+ but Black isn't blown away with it. He can play 8...Kd8 (and even the ugly 8...Kd7). The Bishop f7 has to leave again (h7-h6 is in the air). 9.Bb3 Ke8 with h7-h6 to follow.

I looked at 6...Qe7 with Nc6-d8 to follow if a defence is needed against White's ambitions on f7. I too glanced at 6...h6, a bit shaky...

Wow, pounding attacking moves, that. Qd8-e7 or h7-h6...

But things aren't that easy for White. And the reason is that he exchanged his d-pawn for Black's f-pawn, giving Black a quite solid  2:1 pawn-centre. It is not easy for White to open the centre. The only lever is f2-f4 or he has to sacrifice. I don't see this working right now. So Black has enough time to defend and he is not in a hurry with castling. He can prepare castling queen's side (if he is able to keep the right to do so - see Bücker's short line above but even then he will be able to untangle his pieces).
And later there may crop up some possibilties with a minority attack on the king's side. So there is some live in it. Black is okay...

The only test is 6.Ng5 at once but Black is in shape (I wouldn't call it an especially good one) after 6...Nh6. White's best choice in my eyes is the simple 7.Ne6 taking the pair of Bishops with a slight plus for White. But Black can well fight on.
  

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Re: Soller Gambit offers good chances ??
Reply #6 - 03/28/11 at 11:21:15
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That is the reason why I play 1 d4 e5 2 dxe5 Nc6 before playing 3...f6!
  
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Re: Soller Gambit offers good chances ??
Reply #5 - 03/28/11 at 08:58:37
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Black gets partial compensation for the pawn after 1.d4 e5 2.dxe5 Nc6 3.Nf3 f6 4.exf6 Nxf6 but is a tempo down on the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit (which might give White sufficient compensation, but no more) so it shouldn't come close to being sufficient.  I think it could work at blitz, or as a surprise weapon at the sub 2100 level, but I'd prefer 3...Nge7 over 3...f6.

After 4.e4 fxe5 5.Bc4 d6 6.Ng5 Nh6 Black can indeed hold but has to play accurately to do so, while White has a pretty strong +=.

After the immediate 2...f6 3.e4! is a lot stronger (reaching a position that can also arise via 1.e4 e5 2.d4 f6 3.dxe5).  If 3...Nc6 (3...fxe5 4.Qh5+) then 4.Bc4 is superior to 4.Nf3 and leads to +/- according to Bucker's 1988 book Englund Gambit, and when I checked the line with computer assistance a couple of years ago it looked pretty convincing for White.
  
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Re: Soller Gambit offers good chances ??
Reply #4 - 03/28/11 at 01:40:03
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Soller Gambit is 1 d4 e5 2 dxe5 Nc6 3 Nf3 f6

Now after 4 exf6 Nxf6 5 Bg5 h6 6 Bh4 g5 7 Bg3 Bc5
Black has compensation according to Buecker. If 5 e3 d5 6 Be2 Bd6 you have the Euwe Defense to the BDG  with colors reversed and White up a tempo.

After 1 d4 e5 2 dxe5 Nc6 3 Nf3 f6 4 e4 fxe4 5 Bc4 Black should be able to hold on with correct play. See chesslive.de database for games. As was noted here, 4 e4 is not the acid test of the Soller Gambit. Accepting the gambit with 4 exf6 (or 3 ef6) is the critical test.
  
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Re: Soller Gambit offers good chances ??
Reply #3 - 03/27/11 at 20:34:50
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Thanks Motorhead.

I'm glad I've decided to update some of the unusual defenses to 1 d4 as it seems I might be a bit out of date.

How old is Kassiber 5 as I've never seen this before.

Anyhow d6 looks like desperation to me adn I can't see where "close to equalising" comes from.

Even if white plays a typical Guioco line the loss of the d4 pawn break is less of a hindrance than the fact that Black has difficilty castling kingside and cannot play Be6 to challenge the bishop.

Perhaps the simple h3 and a4 are white best next 2 moves to indicate an obvious advantage.

Anyway I will look at it further.

Kind Regards,

Nelson  Smiley
  
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Re: Soller Gambit offers good chances ??
Reply #2 - 03/27/11 at 20:24:22
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Quote:
Gambit recently stated that the Soller Gambit "offers good chances" in


For Gambit that means "good practical chances in an online blitz game against an unprepared opponent"
  

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Re: Soller Gambit offers good chances ??
Reply #1 - 03/27/11 at 19:46:26
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Nelson wrote on 03/27/11 at 19:23:31:
Dear All,

Gambit recently stated that the Soller Gambit "offers good chances" in a recent post on the Zilbermints Gambit in Euwe defence (post 155)

Does anyone know which line these good chances are in??

According to my notes the main line runs:-

1 d4 e5,2 de f6 3 e4 Nc6 4 Nf3 fe 5 Bc4 Nf6 6 Ng5 Bc5 7 Nf7 Bf2 (Qe7 8 Nh8 d5 9 Bd5 Bg4 10 f3 Bh5 11 Bg5 o-o-o 12 c3 h6 13 Bf6 Qf6 14 b4 ) 8 Kf2 Ne4+ 9 Kg1 (Ke3) Qh4 10 g3 Ng3 11 Nh8 Nh1 12 Qd5 seems much better for white to me.

Regards,

Nelson  Cool


5...Nf6 is not a main line, but only a clear a mistake. Better is the seemingly passive 5...d6, which allows Black to come close to equality. See Kaissiber 5. If you want to call this "good chances" is your choice.

In my eyes 3.e4 is not the acid test to the Soller. I think snatching the pawn 3.exf6 or 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.exf6. Then Black only has the slightest form of a lead in development and the half open f-file. This is the real test.
  

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Soller Gambit offers good chances ??
03/27/11 at 19:23:31
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Dear All,

Gambit recently stated that the Soller Gambit "offers good chances" in a recent post on the Zilbermints Gambit in Euwe defence (post 155)

Does anyone know which line these good chances are in??

According to my notes the main line runs:-

1 d4 e5,2 de f6 3 e4 Nc6 4 Nf3 fe 5 Bc4 Nf6 6 Ng5 Bc5 7 Nf7 Bf2 (Qe7 8 Nh8 d5 9 Bd5 Bg4 10 f3 Bh5 11 Bg5 o-o-o 12 c3 h6 13 Bf6 Qf6 14 b4 ) 8 Kf2 Ne4+ 9 Kg1 (Ke3) Qh4 10 g3 Ng3 11 Nh8 Nh1 12 Qd5 seems much better for white to me.

Regards,

Nelson  Cool
  
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