trw wrote on 11/14/14 at 00:29:53:

RdC wrote on 11/14/14 at 09:01:01:

I don't think there's anything wrong with 4...d6 either

It isn't a "serious" move because it gives up any attempt for advantage on move 4. It makes Berlin players happy and justifies our playing 3... Nf6.

belgian wrote on 11/11/14 at 06:36:38:

or 10...Qf6

Keano wrote on 11/10/14 at 20:19:57:


Yes. One win by Carlsen will not change my mind. In that game, 18.-Qf7 is an "obvious" improvement for example.

Keano wrote on 11/10/14 at 20:19:57:


I don't believe it gives White a serious chance at an opening advantage but it's certainly an excellent practical move, leaving enough play in the position to later outplay an opponent.

Since it's near impossible to demonstrate a plus against the Berlin endgame, it has been a popular choice at all levels.

I remember 4...Ne7 from an old beginner's book ("Play Chess in 30 Minutes").  It had an illustrative game which went 5. Nxe5 c6 6. Nc4 ("A noble try, but it shouldn't work") cb 7. Nd6#.

Keano wrote on 05/12/11 at 23:25:03:

And I absolutely didn't mean it any other way. It was NOT intended as an insult.

Take it easy, trw.  It's about the chess, not about what kind of person Keano is.

I must admit that I myself don't credit this business about what a strong move 4.d3 is, Kramnik's pronouncements notwithstanding.  Believe that if you want, but if that were true, sheesh, we should not be playing 1...e5 because it plays right into the dread d3 Spanish after, for example, 3...a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.d3!  (or 4...d6 5.d3!).  You can reason by analogy and conclude that if the d3 Spanish is good for White, the d3 Italian should be one hell of a winning system, and so should the Four Knights with that pawn sitting pretty on d3.  The Ponzi, the Scotch and the KG are strategic jokes because White's d-pawn belongs on d3, not d4!  And what a colossal mistake to play 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4?!.  Tut, the optimal path is 3.Bc4 and 4.d3!  And come to think of it, why play 1.d4?! when the chance to play the overpowering d3 Spanish is on the board?  

I will concede that White keeps his tempo after 4.d3.  That's about it, so far as I can see, and the tempo loses most of its utilty.  I can see this as a good practical choice for a player who likes maneuvering and wants to avoid opening the position.   But if it's good theoretically then we can stand chess on its head.