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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 (Nimzovich Defence) (Read 23349 times)
an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 (Nimzovich Defence)
Reply #22 - 03/16/18 at 01:07:00
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I did consider 5.f4. Hugh Myers mentioned it in the link, that's why I mentioned it in the PGN I attached. Didn't you already post this same game in a different Nimzowitsch thread?
  
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Re: 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 (Nimzovich Defence)
Reply #21 - 03/15/18 at 07:22:59
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 03/15/18 at 02:15:24:
1. e4 Nc6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. d5 Ne5 5. f3 (This 5.f3 gambit is not convincing if black declines,

You might consider 5.f4 iso 5.f3.

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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 (Nimzovich Defence)
Reply #20 - 03/15/18 at 02:15:24
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I saw some analysis from Lorenzo Buttari
http://bdgpages.blogspot.com/2009/01/gambitting-against-nimzovich-defense.html

1. e4 Nc6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. d5 Ne5 5. f3 (This 5.f3 gambit is not convincing if black declines, but I have won a few games with it as white, so I was interested to follow the analysis when I came across it.) 5... exf3 6. Nxf3 Nxf3+ 7. Qxf3 Nf6 8. Bf4 Bg4 (instead of 8... a6) 9. Bb5+ c6 10. dxc6 Bxf3 11. c7+ (11. cxb7+ Nd7) 11... Qd7 12. Bxd7+ Nxd7 13. gxf3 e5 "the main question is if White's position is worth a pawn" (Hugh Myers).

Wait! Let's look deeper at that parenthetical variation:
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* Position after 11. cxb7+ Nd7.

12. gxf3 Rb8 13. Bxb8 Qxb8 14. O-O-O Qxb7 15. Rxd7 (The previous moves were by me, but 15. Rxd7 is by Stockfish, instead of my idea 15. Rd3) 15... Qxb5 16. Nxb5 Kxd7 17. Rd1+ Ke6 18. Nxa7. I call that +/-. Black might be able to draw, but it will not be easy. Later I might get interested in trying to prove a win for white, but that certainly belongs in the endgame sub-board.
  

1Nc6_Buttari.pgn ( 0 KB | 163 Downloads )
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Re: 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 (Nimzovich Defence)
Reply #19 - 03/06/13 at 07:48:59
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Glenn Snow wrote on 02/19/13 at 04:39:06:
Glenn Snow wrote on 10/17/11 at 05:04:29:
After: 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 (!? or maybe ?!) [u]4.d5 Ne5 6.Bf4 Ng6 7.Bg3 f5 8.Nh3 a6 9.Bc4


I've posted some long variations after this move and it was the most popular and quoted move that I'd seen, however it doesn't appear to be best.  If White instead plays 9.f3!, I now believe he has a comfortable advantage in all variations.  I was only able to find one game with this move where White only drew but he misplayed it fairly early on.  I'm now inclined to give 3...dxe4 the "?!" annotation and would strongly advise anyone wanting to venture this variation to play 3...e6.


Apparently I'm forgetting everything as I get older!  My first post in this thread mentioned 9.f3! and is why I preferred the 7...a6 8.Bc4 f5 move order which I also mentioned there.
  
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Re: 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 (Nimzovich Defence)
Reply #18 - 02/19/13 at 04:39:06
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Glenn Snow wrote on 10/17/11 at 05:04:29:
After: 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 (!? or maybe ?!) [u]4.d5 Ne5 6.Bf4 Ng6 7.Bg3 f5 8.Nh3 a6 9.Bc4


I've posted some long variations after this move and it was the most popular and quoted move that I'd seen, however it doesn't appear to be best.  If White instead plays 9.f3!, I now believe he has a comfortable advantage in all variations.  I was only able to find one game with this move where White only drew but he misplayed it fairly early on.  I'm now inclined to give 3...dxe4 the "?!" annotation and would strongly advise anyone wanting to venture this variation to play 3...e6.
  
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Re: 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 (Nimzovich Defence)
Reply #17 - 11/30/11 at 15:55:57
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MaSu wrote on 11/19/11 at 15:31:01:
I always play 3.--a6 and at this point, white thinks, that black is a stupid beginner.But after 4.exd5-Nb4 5.Nf3 (5.Bc4-Nf6)-Bf5 and white's position looks very bad after 6.Ld3-Bxd3 7.cxd3-Nxd5. Perhaps 4.a3 is an option, but then 4.--Nf6.
3.--Nf6 is an alternative


Thanks for your interest but the thread is about 3...dxe4 and despite what I wrote above it remains unrefuted (Black can reach equality there too).  I think the only other good move is 3...e6.  Both 3...a6 and 3...Nf6 can be tricky weapons but if White knows what he is doing he should have a comfortable advantage in my opinion.  However, if you want to discuss those moves please start another thread.
  
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Re: 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 (Nimzovich Defence)
Reply #16 - 11/19/11 at 15:31:01
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I always play 3.--a6 and at this point, white thinks, that black is a stupid beginner.But after 4.exd5-Nb4 5.Nf3 (5.Bc4-Nf6)-Bf5 and white's position looks very bad after 6.Ld3-Bxd3 7.cxd3-Nxd5. Perhaps 4.a3 is an option, but then 4.--Nf6.
3.--Nf6 is an alternative
  
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Re: 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 (Nimzovich Defence)
Reply #15 - 10/17/11 at 05:04:29
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It seems strange to me but an idea from the QGA gave me an idea for White against this variation.  After: 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 (!? or maybe ?!) 4.d5 Ne5 6.Bf4 Ng6 7.Bg3 a6 7.Bc4 f5 8.Nh3 Nf6, I didn't look at the move 9.Bb3, but it looks interesting.  After 9...h5 (9...b5 10.a4 is one of the ideas) 10.Nf4 Nxf4 11.Bxf4 b5.
If White now plays 12.0-0 it would transpose to a line I mentioned but I'm thinking White should be able to find something better.  Houdini's first three candidate moves, in order, are f3, Qd2 and a4.  Still with unclear play.  Certainly one would have to be brave or foolish to take on the Black position.
  
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Re: 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 (Nimzovich Defence)
Reply #14 - 06/17/11 at 06:02:52
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charlesgalofre wrote on 06/13/11 at 00:50:26:
if your playing the Nimzovich as black, then you must consider:
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2011.06.12"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]

1. e4 Nc6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 e5 *

it has very high practical value, and your keeping with your originality.


I suppose I should have mentioned this when this was originally posted, but the title (subject) of the thread is 3...dxe4.  So anything else is off topic.  It's not that I think the move is necessarily the best but it might be and there's no doubt to it still be under-explored.  It has potential to be a real point scorer for someone willing to learn it.

Someone else mentioned that 2.Nf3 is now the main line.  That may be more common these days and is, in my opinion, the real reason why 1....Nc6 isn't more popular.  It's difficult to find a good reply that's also unique to the opening (of course Black could reply 2...e5).  Other threads on the forum cover some of the better tries.
  
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Re: 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 (Nimzovich Defence)
Reply #13 - 06/16/11 at 23:43:42
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You should look at the games of Alex Dunne (of "Check is in the Mail" fame).  He may be the world's authority on this line.
  
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Re: 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 (Nimzovich Defence)
Reply #12 - 06/16/11 at 19:43:47
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Markovich wrote on 06/16/11 at 16:26:16:
Who am I to differ with a GM, but I refuse to believe that Black is OK there.  3...e5 and now 4.dxe5 for starters, and if 4...d4 then 5.Nd5. 

The OP is interesting.  I have nothing specific but I notice that Black has taken on many weaknesses and may have longterm king safety issues.  Maybe Black is OK, but the line smells funny to me.  I have no refutation, but I would probably give first consideration 9.Bb3, e.g. 9...b5 10.a4 or 9...h5 10.Nf4 Nxf4 11.Bxf4 and soon f2-f3.

P.S. There is no reason why this shouldn't be in this part of the board.  In my practice this line comes up via 1.d4 Nc6 2.e4 d5 3.Nc3.

Yes i 've found 9.Bb3! this morning too
  

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Re: 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 (Nimzovich Defence)
Reply #11 - 06/16/11 at 16:26:16
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Who am I to differ with a GM, but I refuse to believe that Black is OK there.  3...e5 and now 4.dxe5 for starters, and if 4...d4 then 5.Nd5. 

The OP is interesting.  I have nothing specific but I notice that Black has taken on many weaknesses and may have longterm king safety issues.  Maybe Black is OK, but the line smells funny to me.  I have no refutation, but I would probably give first consideration 9.Bb3, e.g. 9...b5 10.a4 or 9...h5 10.Nf4 Nxf4 11.Bxf4 and soon f2-f3.

P.S. There is no reason why this shouldn't be in this part of the board.  In my practice this line comes up via 1.d4 Nc6 2.e4 d5 3.Nc3.
« Last Edit: 06/16/11 at 17:56:31 by Markovich »  

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Re: 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 (Nimzovich Defence)
Reply #10 - 06/16/11 at 11:35:58
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charlesgalofre wrote on 06/13/11 at 00:50:26:
if your playing the Nimzovich as black, then you must consider:
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2011.06.12"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]

1. e4 Nc6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 e5 *

it has very high practical value, and your keeping with your originality.


Jacob Aagaard had a splendid (informative and amusing) article on this line in SOS vol 11 (2009), concluding that Black is OK
  
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Re: 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 (Nimzovich Defence)
Reply #9 - 06/16/11 at 07:11:31
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Yes very good post in the 'old' main line. Now 2.Nf3 is more popular but i still believe with one is critical.
  

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Re: 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 (Nimzovich Defence)
Reply #8 - 06/13/11 at 02:07:17
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charlesgalofre wrote on 06/13/11 at 00:50:26:
if your playing the Nimzovich as black, then you must consider:
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2011.06.12"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]

1. e4 Nc6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 e5 *

it has very high practical value, and your keeping with your originality.


It's a very interesting variation and has been discussed on this forum before.  It still has high practical value but I believe it's been shown to be dubious against best play.
  
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