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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) ipad 2 , experiencing chess ! (Read 40501 times)
GabrielGale
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Re: ipad 2 , experiencing chess !
Reply #49 - 12/06/11 at 21:46:45
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Don't get me wrong. This thread is wonderful and I thank slates for bringing to my attention the iPad apps. I have an iPad as well and am waiting for an app that provides what I would like to do with the iPad (I have posted somewhere).

I also think it is good idea that "authors" (used in a very broad sense) post here and answer queries. No problems with that. (Like what is happening with IM Greet over at 1 e4... forum with his new book).

However, I think it is "rude" to come here and start comparing and "bagging" competitors. If any there is critical comparison to be done, it should be by punters (consumers). In the same way that book authors don't come here begin thrashing their competitors. I don't care if there is some "history" between smartchess" and e+chess. That should be raised and aired in some other forum.

If an "author" has a contribution to make it should be about his/her/their own products and the info should be enlightening. And please stop the "advertising" bit, ie spruiking up your product.
  

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Re: ipad 2 , experiencing chess !
Reply #48 - 12/06/11 at 19:51:16
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adh2050 wrote on 12/06/11 at 17:31:40:
I cannot be sure yet if the ability to enter your own variations will be ready in the next update but we have that on the wish list. This will not be in the Book view but it will be in the Game Collections which will be renamed My PGNs. It will be like your Chessbase.

You will be able to enter your Opening repertoire but with limited text annotations for now.

Both of these apps are in version 1.0. So there's a lot to come folks.



Whoaa! That sounds great  Cheesy
Andres, you have more or less an open field on the I-pad, with some competion.
But the features you describe is basically just what I want!

I would just like to play through games out of a real book (yes a thing made from trees, not from sand) with my ipad. I would like to save such a game with variations, so I can review it later.
  
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fling
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Re: ipad 2 , experiencing chess !
Reply #47 - 12/06/11 at 18:58:45
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adh2050 wrote on 12/06/11 at 17:31:40:
fling wrote on 12/06/11 at 10:00:45:
slates wrote on 12/05/11 at 22:46:22:
Hi Andres,

Yes, you are able to change the size of both the boards and the fonts within the app, as well as flipping the board and entering your own moves in the e+ chess app.
I'm not so sure about the Everyman app, can't remember right now.

Slates


I haven't found a way change the size of the board or font, but you can flip the board. You can't enter moves either.


Hi Fling,
I examined it some more and I could not Flip the board on the iPhone but the button appears on the iPad.

You can change the font of the book text as well but it is NOT true that the board can be resized on either iPhone or iPad.

I wonder how much use the app got by the same users who claim these features to be existing. Yes, there is the option to resize the board but it is not functioning.

I am sure it will come in the next update. Usually, Apple does not approve these features that are not doing anything. It somehow escaped the review process at Apple. We removed a lot of features because they were not totally done and were not completely tested because of this restriction.

We have users complaining about the size of our board and our board is almost twice as big as the one in e+. In fact, we are increasing the size of the boards on the iPhone and iPad in the next update.

I cannot be sure yet if the ability to enter your own variations will be ready in the next update but we have that on the wish list. This will not be in the Book view but it will be in the Game Collections which will be renamed My PGNs. It will be like your Chessbase.

You will be able to enter your Opening repertoire but with limited text annotations for now.

Both of these apps are in version 1.0. So there's a lot to come folks.

For sure, in our next update the App will keep the text to linger until the games scores are played through or until the text no longer applies to the position. And we will introduce a new (fine-tuned) formatting scheme of text and moves so there is no doubt in the reader's mind that he is inside a Variation or inside the main game.

Happy Holidays,
Andres


Andy, I am using the Everyman app only on my iPhone (don't have an iPad, won't get one). I can't find a resize font or board. But there definitely is a flip board option. It is in the middle, right under the board, shown as two round arrows.
  
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slates
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Re: ipad 2 , experiencing chess !
Reply #46 - 12/06/11 at 18:40:43
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I only have e+ chess on my iPad, and yes, I definitely CAN resize the board, but note that I am talking about the board on the left, I.e. the one that appears in the text of the book. In here you can resize the board and font with no problem at all.
The board on the right where the pieces are moved is a fixed size, it seems, but can be flipped and can also be used to manually enter whatever moves you want, although it doesn't record these in any way, rather it serves the purpose of you being able to visualise alternative lines, although without engine assistance.
My use of the app is for reading chess books, more than it is for analysis with engines etc, so for me it is fine.
  
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adh2050
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Re: ipad 2 , experiencing chess !
Reply #45 - 12/06/11 at 17:31:40
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fling wrote on 12/06/11 at 10:00:45:
slates wrote on 12/05/11 at 22:46:22:
Hi Andres,

Yes, you are able to change the size of both the boards and the fonts within the app, as well as flipping the board and entering your own moves in the e+ chess app.
I'm not so sure about the Everyman app, can't remember right now.

Slates


I haven't found a way change the size of the board or font, but you can flip the board. You can't enter moves either.


Hi Fling,
I examined it some more and I could not Flip the board on the iPhone but the button appears on the iPad.

You can change the font of the book text as well but it is NOT true that the board can be resized on either iPhone or iPad.

I wonder how much use the app got by the same users who claim these features to be existing. Yes, there is the option to resize the board but it is not functioning.

I am sure it will come in the next update. Usually, Apple does not approve these features that are not doing anything. It somehow escaped the review process at Apple. We removed a lot of features because they were not totally done and were not completely tested because of this restriction.

We have users complaining about the size of our board and our board is almost twice as big as the one in e+. In fact, we are increasing the size of the boards on the iPhone and iPad in the next update.

I cannot be sure yet if the ability to enter your own variations will be ready in the next update but we have that on the wish list. This will not be in the Book view but it will be in the Game Collections which will be renamed My PGNs. It will be like your Chessbase.

You will be able to enter your Opening repertoire but with limited text annotations for now.

Both of these apps are in version 1.0. So there's a lot to come folks.

For sure, in our next update the App will keep the text to linger until the games scores are played through or until the text no longer applies to the position. And we will introduce a new (fine-tuned) formatting scheme of text and moves so there is no doubt in the reader's mind that he is inside a Variation or inside the main game.

Happy Holidays,
Andres
  
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Re: ipad 2 , experiencing chess !
Reply #44 - 12/06/11 at 10:00:45
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slates wrote on 12/05/11 at 22:46:22:
Hi Andres,

Yes, you are able to change the size of both the boards and the fonts within the app, as well as flipping the board and entering your own moves in the e+ chess app.
I'm not so sure about the Everyman app, can't remember right now.

Slates


I haven't found a way change the size of the board or font, but you can flip the board. You can't enter moves either.
  
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adh2050
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Re: ipad 2 , experiencing chess !
Reply #43 - 12/06/11 at 00:03:35
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slates wrote on 12/05/11 at 22:46:22:
Hi Andres,

Yes, you are able to change the size of both the boards and the fonts within the app, as well as flipping the board and entering your own moves in the e+ chess app.
I'm not so sure about the Everyman app, can't remember right now.

Slates


Hi Slates,

Then, hats off to e+. They just have to get more content in there, which is, of course, a different obstacle to surmount. The limited inventory suggests the amount of work that is required to transform content into this format and platform.

We had to create tools in-house to automate the coding process.

e+ benefited from our experience for sure. There is no turning back now. It will be a matter of time before others follow. This will spur innovation and sleeker implementation schemes which in turn will benefit all of us who love this game so much.

I see more fun gathering on the horizon. It gives me great pleasure to have spurred everyone on this path.

Andres
  
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Re: ipad 2 , experiencing chess !
Reply #42 - 12/05/11 at 22:46:22
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Hi Andres,

Yes, you are able to change the size of both the boards and the fonts within the app, as well as flipping the board and entering your own moves in the e+ chess app.
I'm not so sure about the Everyman app, can't remember right now.

Slates
  
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Re: ipad 2 , experiencing chess !
Reply #41 - 12/05/11 at 19:14:47
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slates wrote on 12/04/11 at 08:36:24:
Hi Andres,
I understand that you are defensive of your product, but I can't revise my opinion for that reason alone.
The e+chess app is simply far better in my own opinion - yes, you can enter 'what if' moves, but no, you can't flip the board, something I'd like to see, for sure. 
I simply prefer the way it handles variations, which is similar to the Everyman app - both of these apps work for me, but as I said before, I do hope your app does well and is a success, but personally I much prefer these others and will pay their prices for the functionality they offer me.
Kind regards,
Slates


Hi Slates,

Point taken. I appreciate your sincerity. However, I do not defend bad ideas including mine. I am quick to acknowledge better ideas and even quicker to assimilate them. But sometimes, we have a tendency to exaggerate or embellish. I was responding to the "vastly superior" part of your comment. I do not think so, and of course we have a difference of opinion there.

I did not notice if you can enlarge the font of the text, can you?

Andres
  
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Re: ipad 2 , experiencing chess !
Reply #40 - 12/05/11 at 19:06:07
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slates wrote on 12/04/11 at 20:57:13:
LeeRoth wrote on 12/04/11 at 17:30:10:
Slates, you can flip the board in the e-chess app.  It's one of the buttons under the board. Wink

Thanks LeeRoth, I overlooked that.


I overlooked that as well. My apologies to the creators of e+. And if only they will consider enlarging the board.

Andres
  
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Re: ipad 2 , experiencing chess !
Reply #39 - 12/05/11 at 19:04:00
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Konstriktor wrote on 12/04/11 at 19:09:25:
My preference is for THE e+ chess app.

@andres I appreciate that you check out this forum. But don't take the criticism too hard.
Your product has good sides, one of them is that you can play through your own moves when going through a variation.

One gripe with smartchess is that when you play through some moves the annotation  disappears. This makes the game hard to follow.
Another point which can be better is that you have to go through a lot of pages when going through a game. Combined with the point above is that you miss the big picture of the game.

What I personally would like to see is an app which is a mix between your smartchessapp and the everymanchessviewer. The everymanchessviewer has as a pro that you can see the entire game with annotations.
The e+app also has this possibility of seeing the whole game or text.
You cannot go through a variation if you want, but I don't find that too bothersome.

The ipad chess apps out there are still not perfect.
I would just like to see an app which
1.can read pgn with annotations and variations.
2. Allows you to add variations and annotations and save this in a file on your ipad.

If these two can be implemented in an app I think you will have a simple winner.



Yes, we are working on it. We appreciate various suggestions on this Forum. After all, we are for creating a high-utility product.

In the next update, you will get to see the relevant text just like in the book except that it will be formatted and presented to you in a much clearer way.

After all, you do not get to see the entire text of the book on one page.

It will be similar to your experience now in reading a page of a chess book. We will just make it tidy for you. As pointed out in my other post, it will keep the variation string on the screen and the comments in between while you step through the variation. If there is no prose, you will only see the game scores of the variation.

My only objection to the e+ scheme is that the board is way too small and I still have to sift through the embedded prose.

For me, the "chaos" is not addressed by the current scheme. It is the same objection that I have with Everyman's e-viewer. Otherwise, Everyman's eBooks when read in Chessbase is the way to go because you have access to a strong engine. And if you take away the advantage and ease of mobility in these devices (and of course content), we will have no need for these Apps.

Content (what you can consume in these apps) and facility of learning or ease of consumption are the factors that we should measure these Apps. The others are good to have but are just cosmetics.

And you hit it on target when you wrote about the utility of being able to enter your own variations and comments for consumption later. That is what we are striving to achieve.

For now (first stage), we are focusing on how best to consume existing chess content. The second stage is to enable the utility of creating your own content.

Keep the great ideas from coming. That is one reason I visit the Forum. I ought to frequent it some more.

Best regards,
Andres
  
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Re: ipad 2 , experiencing chess !
Reply #38 - 12/05/11 at 18:42:24
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Konstriktor wrote on 12/04/11 at 19:09:25:
My preference is for THE e+ chess app.

@andres I appreciate that you check out this forum. But don't take the criticism too hard.
Your product has good sides, one of them is that you can play through your own moves when going through a variation.

One gripe with smartchess is that when you play through some moves the annotation  disappears. This makes the game hard to follow.
Another point which can be better is that you have to go through a lot of pages when going through a game. Combined with the point above is that you miss the big picture of the game.

What I personally would like to see is an app which is a mix between your smartchessapp and the everymanchessviewer. The everymanchessviewer has as a pro that you can see the entire game with annotations.
The e+app also has this possibility of seeing the whole game or text.
You cannot go through a variation if you want, but I don't find that too bothersome.

The ipad chess apps out there are still not perfect.
I would just like to see an app which
1.can read pgn with annotations and variations.
2. Allows you to add variations and annotations and save this in a file on your ipad.

If these two can be implemented in an app I think you will have a simple winner.



Hi,

Good points. That is how we can work together to make a better app. Because of Slates previous comment, we are adding Flip Board in the next Update.

Also the following:
1. We will keep text to linger in the text screen window just like in the book as you play through the nested line.

2. The actual games of the game will be in bold just like in the book.

3. However, we will keep our approach of only showing the relevant text and not the entire book so the the burden of sifting through the embedded prose is removed from the user.

4. The only time a text is allowed to stay on the screen is when it is has relevant commentary to the a series of moves on that page.

5. With regards to the handling of pgn files, the games in the Games Collections is already in pgn format, which means we already have a stable pgn reader. We are adding Start Position, End Position and Autoplay in the next update. We are still working on recursive game annotations. We are almost there but not quite so to get it part of the update. It will just be a matter of time before most apps will be able to do it.

6. I am a consumer of this Apps too so I know what we all want. We will get there eventually.

7. Once we have a stronger engine, you will be able to call an analysis module in Book view.

But one thing is encouraging that Slates is willing to pay for functionality. I think most consumers would and it is a good thing.

Slates, I am not taking these criticisms "too hard." I am actually thankful for them. If you noticed, we changed the way we implement the nested lines largely because of your comment earlier. And we heartily agreed with you. Allowing certain texts or a nested line to linger while it is being played through is again a response to your comment.

While e+ has its strengths, we still believe that by adding the lingering text, our presentation scheme is by far the best approach when it comes to the enjoyment, delivery and consumption of chess content.

I very much welcome the arrival of e+ because it is vindicating my vision. If you only know the untold story behind it and SmartChess!, you will see my point. It will someday become part of chess lore. For now, I am happy that it is out there and chess content consumers have now more choices.

Best regards,
Andres
  
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Re: ipad 2 , experiencing chess !
Reply #37 - 12/04/11 at 22:55:32
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adh2050 wrote on 12/04/11 at 02:49:15:
slates wrote on 12/02/11 at 07:42:39:
Late for work, so just time for a quick couple of mentions, prompted by your post  - the Chess Tiger app is pretty good for entering variations, as well as being a lot of fun to play as an engine in its own right and although expensive and iPhone native right now is apparently due out in universal iPad enhanced form shortly.....
Also, I found an app called e+chess recently which is superb for playing through chess books on the iPad, it's vastly superior, in my opinion, to Smartchess, which failed to live up to its promise. 
It comes with Capablanca book free and has options to buy other titles, first one I got was Beim's strategy book, I believe Silman's endgame and Reassess 4 are on their way to the app too.


Hi Slates,

If an app with a small and unresponsive (dead) board because it cannot accept what-if moves is described as "vastly superior" to SmartChess as a matter of opinion, then I think it is an opinion that will not worry me a bit.

I am sure every app to its credit provides for some utility and meets the needs of content consumers but to call it vastly superior (based on what is not clear), is quite a stretch.

If I remember it right, you were looking for a Flip board option in an App, were you not?

Chess Fundamentals is free but the other titles are a bit pricey, don't you think?

It has good graphics for sure.

And if you enjoy reading through a maze of variations and nested lines in variations while having to sift through embedded prose then it is the perfect app for you.

Andres


The e+ chess app board isn't dead, you can do what if moves there too, but isn't drag and drop

I have to admit I too prefer their format as you can see all the text at the same time, which better enables you to navigate your position in the game.

For future updates of the smart ches app it would be worth considering giving the user theoptn of either looking at the 'book' in your way or the more traditional full notation approach.

In any case I think there is still a lot of room for further developments before the ultimate app comes


  
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Re: ipad 2 , experiencing chess !
Reply #36 - 12/04/11 at 20:57:13
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LeeRoth wrote on 12/04/11 at 17:30:10:
Slates, you can flip the board in the e-chess app.  It's one of the buttons under the board. Wink

Thanks LeeRoth, I overlooked that.
  
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Re: ipad 2 , experiencing chess !
Reply #35 - 12/04/11 at 19:42:30
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Konstriktor wrote on 12/04/11 at 19:09:25:
If these two can be implemented in an app I think you will have a simple winner.



After testing most apps on my iPhone, I have come to realize that the winner (at least for me) most likely will be a tablet with Win 8.
  
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