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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Pirc Player Suggestion against 3.f3 (Read 10180 times)
OrangeCounty
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Re: Pirc Player Suggestion against 3.f3
Reply #19 - 07/19/11 at 22:59:53
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As a matter of taste I prefer to play Benoni/Benko, as opposed to Blumenfeld, positions.  I'm happy to advance b5, but generally only after playing ...exd5, or without playing ...e6 at all.  I was just responding to Kylemeister's point about the possible Samisch/Benoni/Pirc transposition, not making a general statement.
  
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MNb
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Re: Pirc Player Suggestion against 3.f3
Reply #18 - 07/19/11 at 20:45:46
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1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.f3 c5 4.d5 e6 5.c4 b5!? still is not really a Modern Benoni. So you still can play 3...c5. Or do you have any particular objection against 5...b5 ?
  

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OrangeCounty
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Re: Pirc Player Suggestion against 3.f3
Reply #17 - 07/19/11 at 18:25:49
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Good point.  I should have mentioned that.  However, it isn't a line that should scare Black, particularly.  If you played a Benoni move order, would you really expect White to steer for this line?  I would expect Nf3 and h3, or else the Taimanov Bb5+ line.  Anything else is happiness (as a Benoni player off and on myself).

But you're right, if the goal is to avoid Samisch positions, rather than to reach equal positions, then the Benoni approach is a transposition to avoid, and that probably rules out 3...c5 altogether.  Unfortunately, I'm pretty much convinced that 3...c5 is the best move available to Black.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Pirc Player Suggestion against 3.f3
Reply #16 - 07/18/11 at 16:35:10
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That sort of f3 Benoni is also a major line in the Saemisch (which 3. f3 could be aiming to reach).
  
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OrangeCounty
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Re: Pirc Player Suggestion against 3.f3
Reply #15 - 07/18/11 at 16:05:22
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Anytime you see a move that doesn't control d5 or e5 by White in the first few moves of a Pirc, seriously consider both ...e5 and ...c5, because odds are, one of them equalizes immediately.  In this case, ...c5.  3...c5 4 d5 e6 5 c4 exd5 is a (mostly) harmless line of the Benoni Defense. It's too bad there's no way to get a good Benko - in the KID that's a position you aim for since f2-f3 isn't too useful there.

You can probably also play 4 d5 g6 - White will need to develop pieces before he does anything nasty to you, and if he plays c2-c4 you get that Benko after all...
  
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walkingterrapin
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Re: Pirc Player Suggestion against 3.f3
Reply #14 - 06/10/11 at 12:29:44
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I rarely play the Pirc, but i always use Na6 when i play it.  it confuses white in most lines.  i am interested in the f3 systems as white now though it does score exceptionally well in fact just as good or better as the austrian attack.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Pirc Player Suggestion against 3.f3
Reply #13 - 06/09/11 at 20:53:29
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Hmm, that wasn't my impression.  I wonder if you would also choose to remain a pawn down after 4. Nc3 c5 5. Bxa6 ba 6. dc.

It would seem that the field is clear for you to establish the greatness of 3...Na6; in checking the Chessbase and NIC online databases I found exactly one (insignificant-looking) game with it.
  
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walkingterrapin
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Re: Pirc Player Suggestion against 3.f3
Reply #12 - 06/09/11 at 03:12:15
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down a pawn but with good compensation with equality in site.  pretty good for just 4 moves as black.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Pirc Player Suggestion against 3.f3
Reply #11 - 06/05/11 at 18:53:11
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One thing Black would have to bear in mind is that 4. Be3 c5 amounts to giving up a pawn.
  
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walkingterrapin
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Re: Pirc Player Suggestion against 3.f3
Reply #10 - 06/05/11 at 18:07:57
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why is Ba6 a concern after Be3?  c5 seems to bust up whites center and after dc or Qa5 check black should be fine with the bishop pair and semi open b file.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Pirc Player Suggestion against 3.f3
Reply #9 - 06/05/11 at 17:52:22
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I would have thought that 5. Bxa6 would be quite a concern for Black after 4. Be3 c5 or 4. Nc3 c5.  Not to mention that in the case of 4. Be3 c5 5. dc Nxc5 there is 6. e5.  As for ...c6, I don't know what that would be doing (5...Na6 isn't a major move after 1. e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 g6 4. Be3 c6 5. f3, for example). 

As for ...Nbd7 plus ...e5, just incidentally I noticed a game with it from about a week ago at the French team championship (Vaisser-Fressinet).  That can transpose to book stuff in the Old Indian.
  
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walkingterrapin
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Re: Pirc Player Suggestion against 3.f3
Reply #8 - 06/05/11 at 17:19:38
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philidor positions are good as well, but you have to be careful locking up the center with e5 might lead to an easy pawn storm against the black k side.

as for 4. Nc3 or Be3 those are just more of the same and c5 or c6 should work out admirably.  taking the Na6 is again taboo and then trying the capture on c5 leads into the Knight taking and a good verision of the dragon sicilian.
  
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Re: Pirc Player Suggestion against 3.f3
Reply #7 - 06/04/11 at 14:37:49
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If you are not averse to a Philidor type game, I have happy experiences of 3..Nbd7 and 4 c4 e5
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Pirc Player Suggestion against 3.f3
Reply #6 - 06/02/11 at 16:14:00
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Yes, a strange move which just happens to score 59% from about 850 games in NIC's online database.

As for 3...Na6, playing ...c5 on the next move seems inadvisable after 4. Be3 or 4. Nc3.
  
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walkingterrapin
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Re: Pirc Player Suggestion against 3.f3
Reply #5 - 06/02/11 at 15:17:06
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f3 is a strange move and even though "the gary"  played it once against a group of weak players that doesnt mean it gets his stamp of approval. 

Na6 would manifest itself by playing c5 on the next move.  if the N is taken then black is at least equal.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Pirc Player Suggestion against 3.f3
Reply #4 - 06/01/11 at 19:39:11
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I'll buy 3...c5 as being quite reasonable; I have doubts as to how the greatness of 3...Na6 would manifest itself.  Incidentally I recall this particular strange move as having been played by Kasparov in a simul against 4 German GMs, for the stake of a BMW ...
  
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walkingterrapin
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Re: Pirc Player Suggestion against 3.f3
Reply #3 - 06/01/11 at 17:59:21
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anytime someone plays a strange move against the pirc it is always best met by c5 or Na6.  in this case either one of those moves is great.
  
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Re: Pirc Player Suggestion against 3.f3
Reply #2 - 05/10/11 at 22:15:46
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Nigel Davies's DVD recommends

1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.f3 d5 4.e5 Ng8 so you can develop the QB.

5. c4 is a critical variation. Not sure if I like this for Black.





  

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Re: Pirc Player Suggestion against 3.f3
Reply #1 - 05/10/11 at 19:58:31
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James Vigus in Dangerous Weapons recommends 3...c5 4.d5 e6 5.c4 b5, 4.c3 d5 and 4.dxc5 Qa5+.
  

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Pirc Player Suggestion against 3.f3
05/10/11 at 19:24:33
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G'Day,

What do you Pirc'ers do against people that try to dodge your opening via 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.f3?

So far I've been playing the Sämisch, but I don't really like that. Alburt/Chernin in Pirc Alert! give transpositions to Old Indian (3. ..e5 4.d5 Be7) or French (3. ..d5 4.e5 Nbd7) as other possibilities, but from skimming over the arising positions, that didn't really look like my cup of tea either;
That one poisoned pawn variation looks the closest to something I'd play (1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.f3 d5 4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 c5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Be3 Qb6 with an eventual Qb2:) but I'm not so sure whether there isn't something that is closer to familiar waters.

So - any suggestions for something more or less dynamic which isn't the Sämisch KID against those pesky 3.f3 Pircdodgers?

Thanks in advance Smiley
  

- Iron Tigran #1
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