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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Avoid being move-ordered (Read 5039 times)
OrangeCounty
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You played that like it
was a good move!

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Re: Avoid being move-ordered
Reply #11 - 06/22/11 at 22:43:32
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Avoiding the Bc4 Grand Prix attack at the cost of being move ordered out of the Najdorf seems more than a little bit like cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.  The GP with Bc4 isn't great anyway, and certainly shouldn't scare a well-prepared player.  It's a good version of a line where the good versions are = anyway.  2...d6 is the move order.  I vaguely remember there are other problems with 2...a6, anyway (White gets a good Morra Gambit, Alapin, or Hedgehog), so it isn't like that's a way to avoid bad versions of sidelines.

Exception: If you only play the Najdorf to get a Scheveningen w/o the Keres, the best move order is probably 2...e6, which is probably the best second move for dealing with anti-sicilians (you have to be willing to play an Advance French every blue moon or so, but that's easy to learn and decent for Black).  You have to be willing to play with ...Nc6, but that's okay.  If you're looking to get Najdorf main lines rather than Scheveningen stuff, though, you need to play 2...d6.

e.g.:

1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 e6 3 d4 cxd4 4 Nxd4 Nf6 followed by ...d6.
1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 e6 3 c3 d5 4 e5 Nc6 5 d4 (the aforementioned transposition)
1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 e6 3 c3 d5 4 exd5 exd5 is probably going to be an IQP position, but one which should be A-okay for Black since White is committed to c3.
1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 e6 3 Nc3 Nc6 4 g3 Nf6 heads for the lines of the Closed where Black plays f7-f5 in response to g4.  This is okay for Black, although it isn't my favorite position to play.
1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 e6 3 Nc3 Nc6 4 Bc4 Nf6 5 [anything but d2-d4] d5.

  
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Re: Avoid being move-ordered
Reply #10 - 06/02/11 at 22:51:17
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yes I was thinking that 2...d6 is the best move order for me (Ftacnik suggests it too). The line quoted by zoo seems very interesting for white actually! Thanks to all for the advice.
  
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agropop
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Re: Avoid being move-ordered
Reply #9 - 06/01/11 at 13:55:58
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Being serious now, Gelfand (a principled najdorf player) has always played 2...d6 not fearing the Grand-prix too much.
  
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agropop
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Re: Avoid being move-ordered
Reply #8 - 06/01/11 at 13:52:32
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Yes, ...a6 fits well in the clasic sometimes  Smiley
  
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walkingterrapin
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Re: Avoid being move-ordered
Reply #7 - 06/01/11 at 12:29:09
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After 2......Nc6 you can still play a Najdorf.  Look at some of the older lines where 6.........Nc6 is played or maybe even before that.  One developing move cannot take you out of the Najdorf as it is a flexible system designed originially to be played with e5 rather than the current schevengin fashion. 

Look at some older games and you will find plenty of times in the Najdorf where Nc6 is useful and you can always redeploy the N via e5 where it goes alot of times from d7 anyways. 

Just my 2 cents.
  
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zoo
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Re: Avoid being move-ordered
Reply #6 - 05/19/11 at 20:02:33
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by playing 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6, you give up any hope of playing a Najdorf, whereas White gave no indication yet that she wanted to play Open, Closed or Anti sicilian.  You may want to consider that.
If you intend to play 3.Nf3 e5 and move along Botvinnik setup, you must find a move order against Ng5 and f4 with tempo. For instance, 4.Bc4 g6 5.d3 Bg7 6.Ng5 Nh6 7.f4 can be a problem. A better course may be 4...Be7 transposing to a well-known anti-sveshnikov (1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 e5). So, you'll have your Botvinnik setup only against the closed sicilian, where it's very good indeed.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Avoid being move-ordered
Reply #5 - 05/19/11 at 19:03:33
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There is also however some other stuff (the line with Nxc6 and e5, and White aiming to transpose to the Classical Dragon, though in the latter case Black has some independent tries).
  
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mangler
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Re: Avoid being move-ordered
Reply #4 - 05/19/11 at 17:55:27
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Another option is to play 1e4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3.Nge2/3.Nf3 g6, aiming for an Accelerated Dragon without having to worry about the Maroczy Bind. I seem to recall Joe Gallagher mentioning this in his Beating the Anti Sicilians book.  If White does play 4.d4, you can always go with the early Qa5 line, forcing White to castle kingside. That line is fairly straightforward to play (and remember), which may be helpful as you are probably not going to play it very often.

If white does not play 4. d4, then you are all set with a closed Sicilian setup with ...g6.

I played the Najdorf for years, and this is what I had planned, but no one ever played a delayed move order trick with 4.d4 against me in a tournament game.

  
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Re: Avoid being move-ordered
Reply #3 - 05/19/11 at 17:22:15
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1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nge2 d6 isn´t possible since he wants to play a Najdorf...

3... e5 is solid and fully playable but Black will find it difficult to play for a win.

I don´t now if this has been covered in any book so far. Perhaps by Rogozenko in "Anti-Sicilians: A Guide for Black"?

But TonyRo has stated elsewhere he will cover this line for Black in his upcoming book "The Killer Sicilian" published by Everyman later this year.
  
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gramsci
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Re: Avoid being move-ordered
Reply #2 - 05/19/11 at 13:52:53
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TN wrote on 05/19/11 at 09:23:55:
Why not 3...d6?

Because White gets a good version of Gand Prix with the bishop on c4?
  
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TN
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Re: Avoid being move-ordered
Reply #1 - 05/19/11 at 09:23:55
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Why not 3...d6?
  

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Avoid being move-ordered
05/19/11 at 06:38:15
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Hi guys!
So, I am a Najdorf player and have always played 2...a6 in reply to 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3. But lately I bought "Experts vs. the Sicilian" and found quite a few interesting and well covered ideas for black after 2...Nc6. The problem is that after 3.Nge2 or 3.Nf3 white is threatening 4.d4 luring me into some non-Najdorf open sicilian. As one of the ideas proposed in the book is to play some kind of Botvinnik-like-setup against the closed Sicilian I was thinking that 3...e5 may be a solution and I checked the  databases and have seen that many super-strong players have played it. The only scary thing is that white scores almost 62% after 3.Nge2 e5 4.Nd5.
Does anyone have any experience with this early ...e5 stuff or some other idea?

Thanks in advance!
  
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