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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Best Setup Against the London System? (Read 37664 times)
Justinhorton
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #36 - 07/26/12 at 09:39:10
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Pantu wrote on 07/26/12 at 09:29:41:
My understanding is that 1 d4 Nf6 2 Bf4 c5 3 d5 Qb6 is considered a little unpleasant for the average London player (although perfectly viable, and 4 Nc3 Qxb2 5 Bd2 transposes to a Tromp position).


Thanks. I had wondered if White might simply play 4.Bc1 and ask what the queen was doing on b6.
  
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Pantu
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #35 - 07/26/12 at 09:29:41
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My understanding is that 1 d4 Nf6 2 Bf4 c5 3 d5 Qb6 is considered a little unpleasant for the average London player (although perfectly viable, and 4 Nc3 Qxb2 5 Bd2 transposes to a Tromp position).

1 d4 Nf5 2 Nf3 d5! 3 Bf4 allows 3...c5 4 e3 Nc6 5 c3 Qb6 6 Qc2 Bf5 7 Qc1 which is at least equal for black.  1 d4 d5 2 Bf4 Nf6 3 e3 c5 4 c3 Nc6 5 Nd2 is the point of 2 Bf4 which avoids this.
  
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #34 - 07/26/12 at 08:12:57
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RdC wrote on 07/25/12 at 19:36:15:
The update on the chesspublishing.com site contains lines where White delays Nf3.


Looking at the page I see references to 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4, but not, apparently, 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bf4.
  
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RdC
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #33 - 07/25/12 at 19:36:15
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The update on the chesspublishing.com site contains lines where White delays Nf3. If you never see it in games, it demonstrates that most players of the London system don't follow theory and are content with the same set up in every single game.
  
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #32 - 07/25/12 at 10:06:39
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I don't really know anything about the London System so maybe this is a good place to ask this question.

I never seem to come across the move order 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bf4.  Is there any particular reason for this?
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #31 - 06/30/12 at 16:04:14
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 06/25/12 at 18:02:25:
Why, isn't the 7th June 2012 sufficiently recent?

Latest update is June 30th now, with 14 new games added! Smiley

Hadron wrote on 06/27/12 at 21:45:13:
what about 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bf4 Nh5 as mentioned in SOS 13  by Dimitri Reinderman?

Why does no-one play 4. Be3 here?
  
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #30 - 06/27/12 at 21:45:13
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I don't know if it has been mentioned at all but what about 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bf4 Nh5 as mentioned in SOS 13  by Dimitri Reinderman? I have used the purer form of this, 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bf4 Nh5, to some good effect against far stronger players than me.....
Thanks
Earl.

  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #29 - 06/25/12 at 18:02:25
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saubhikr wrote on 06/25/12 at 02:52:35:
Any plan for another update to London eBook?

Why, isn't the 7th June 2012 sufficiently recent? Trying refreshing the download page the next time, you may have an older version in your cache. Wink
  
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #28 - 06/25/12 at 02:52:35
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Tony
Any plan for another update to London eBook?

Thanks
Souvik
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #27 - 11/24/11 at 13:00:23
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I'm just preparing Eric's November update and it looks like this particular KID line would be my choice for Black. Certainly if White wastes a move with h3 he gets into quite a bit of trouble.
As soon as it goes online (tonight) you should download the London playable eBook. Wink
  
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OrangeCounty
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #26 - 11/23/11 at 22:18:31
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I agree with Kylemeister.  Picking a "best line" against the London System is a fool's errand.  The London System isn't even an opening, it's a lazy arrangement of pieces that is unlikely to lose immediately.  Anything Black does that doesn't involve transposing to a bad variation of a different opening is probably going to be fine if it develops pieces and doesn't hang them.

The Reversed QGD is one of many systems which appear to give Black at least equal chances.  The KID setup is fun too.
  
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #25 - 11/12/11 at 11:45:22
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Buford wrote on 11/08/11 at 18:28:15:
The Prie, E. - Svetushkin, D. game does not refute the solid defense given by John Cox in Dealing with d4-deviations.

Please note that in the above game Black can't play ...15. g6, because after 16.Nxc5 gxh5 17.Nxd7 Rd8 18.Nxf6+ followed by Nxh5 White has a winning ending. However, if Black had answered the stupid looking 10.Nxd7 with the even uglier ...10.Qxd7, he would be a tempo down compared with Prie-Svetuskin. In this line Black's Bishop is safe on it's original square instead of hanging on d7 and Black now can safely exchange Queens and remain a piece up. White can draw with 16.Qg5 Qe7 17.Nf6+ Kg7 18.Nh5+ with a perpetual.

Slobodon Kovacevic-Henrik Teske, Seville, 2011 was agreed drawn after ...10.Qxd7.


And after 11.Qh5, isn't White a bit better placed on the kingside?
  
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #24 - 11/08/11 at 18:28:15
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The Prie, E. - Svetushkin, D. game does not refute the solid defense given by John Cox in Dealing with d4-deviations.

Please note that in the above game Black can't play ...15. g6, because after 16.Nxc5 gxh5 17.Nxd7 Rd8 18.Nxf6+ followed by Nxh5 White has a winning ending. However, if Black had answered the stupid looking 10.Nxd7 with the even uglier ...10.Qxd7, he would be a tempo down compared with Prie-Svetuskin. In this line Black's Bishop is safe on it's original square instead of hanging on d7 and Black now can safely exchange Queens and remain a piece up. White can draw with 16.Qg5 Qe7 17.Nf6+ Kg7 18.Nh5+ with a perpetual.

Slobodon Kovacevic-Henrik Teske, Seville, 2011 was agreed drawn after ...10.Qxd7.
  
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #23 - 08/27/11 at 20:16:10
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Yup, that has come up here (and on ChessPublishing).  More recently it was mentioned in NIC YB, incidentally.
  
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fling
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #22 - 08/27/11 at 19:53:25
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I just had a look at Dealing with d4-deviations. I couldn't see anything posted on this, did I miss it? Interestingly, Cox recommends Black to follow Prie-Svetushkin, but he misses White's idea. This line looks pretty sad for Black!



Since even strong players have missed this line, it is maybe not such a stupid question to ask how to play against the London?
  
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