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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Best Setup Against the London System? (Read 39767 times)
jarr
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #21 - 08/23/11 at 10:11:07
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3...dxe4 4.d5 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Qe2!? followed by quick castling is dangerous, so 3...Nc6! looks best. This was also recommended by Knaak in CBM, his mainline continues:
4.exd5 Qxd5 5.Nc3 Qxd4 6.Nd5 e5 7.Nc7+ Kd8 8.Nxa8 exf4 with an unclear position. The Na8 is probably lost, so this should be fine for Black.
  
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #20 - 08/21/11 at 19:44:11
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Check the game of Luc Winants. 3...Nc6 looks fine.
  

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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #19 - 08/21/11 at 19:13:08
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jarr wrote on 08/21/11 at 18:04:04:
I have recently tried the following line with black (i've got it from an old CBM article):
Interesting is the gambit 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 c5 3.e4!?, but this may not be everyones cup of tea and objectively black should be fine here too.


This is interesting and essentially an Albin-Countergambit, with an extra move for White. Haven't yet figured out in what line this move counts the least. I have actually never met this move, but saw that Lakdawala recommends it.
  
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #18 - 08/21/11 at 18:04:04
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I have recently tried the following line with black (i've got it from an old CBM article):
1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 c5 3.c3 Nc6 4.e3 Qb6 5.Qb3 c4 6.Qc2
now ...Bf5 like in the 2.Nf3 Nf6 Variation is not possible because White can take the Bishop. However there is the move
6...e5!? 7.dxe5 Bf5 (now it works) 8.Qc1 g5! (8...Ne7!? is also interesting)
If white takes on g5 then Nxe5 gives Black great compensation and 9.Bg3 h5 10.h3 Bg7 11.Nf3 g4 12.Nd4 Ne7 13.Nd2 Nxe5  looks already a little better for Black.
Any suggestions where white can improve?
Interesting is the gambit 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 c5 3.e4!?, but this may not be everyones cup of tea and objectively black should be fine here too.
  
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nyoke
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #17 - 07/16/11 at 05:44:58
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Quote:
Apparently I'm the only one that finds the Reversed Slow Slavs interesting


No you're not.
  
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #16 - 06/28/11 at 13:52:53
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Yelena Dembo in her "Fighting The Anti-King's Indians" recommends this setup:
1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 g6 3. Bf4 Bg7 4. e3 d6 5. h3 O-O 6. Be2 c5 7. O-O Qb6
I regard it as a decent approach to achieve something with black against London System. Additionally, I can point at the most critical game in this variation - Denis Khismatullin - Emil Sutovsky, 1/2-1/2 Moscow 2008 which continues like this: 8. Nbd2 Be6 9. Ng5 Bd7 10. Nc4 Qc7 11. c3 h6 12. Nf3 Be6 13. Rc1 Nbd7 with = ... The reason I give this game is that I think both players played the best moves.
  
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #15 - 06/28/11 at 03:23:18
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Kanivakil wrote on 05/25/11 at 19:31:21:
What's the best setup against the London System? I don't have much experience against it. I've played around with the KID (one of my opening repertoire) setup and the ...Nf6, e6, c5, Qb6, hitting on b2 idea, but it seems that white can just play a dull game with c3 vs. e3, and meet ...Qb6 with Qb3.


Apparently I'm the only one that finds the Reversed Slow Slavs interesting, since everybody else thinks it's "dull".

(1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 e6 3. Bf4 c5 4. c3 Nc6 5. e3 Nh5!? 6. Bg5 Qb6 then h6/g5/Nxg3, or 6. Bg3 Nxg3)

Our resident London expert has a healthy opinion of it in the annotations I've seen, but maybe it isn't for everyone.
  

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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #14 - 06/27/11 at 21:07:35
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kylemeister wrote on 05/31/11 at 17:44:01:
I continue to wonder at these questions about the best line against opening X, when the norm is that there isn't a best line.

BTW, regarding that KID setup with ...c5 and ...Qb6, there's an old idea of ...Be6 to try to rule out Qb3.  A Kamsky-Benjamin encounter from about twenty years ago was perhaps a model game for Black.   


Ditto. I'm surprised that these repetitive inane questions continue to generate responses from seasoned forum posters, who by now should know better.

Then again I just posted here so I'm just as guilty.

Responses to D-Pawn sidelines should be closely linked to the type of positions you play against the Queen's Gambit, where ever and when ever possible. Learn refutations where they exists and when forced out of your known patterns of play, resort to sound opening principles to find reasonable moves. For example, if you never saw or came across the following sequence before as black, how would you follow up and why:

1.d4 d5  2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3

Tops Smiley
  

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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #13 - 06/15/11 at 06:56:10
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I had a nagging feeling that may be the case, i was aware of the line but hadn't analysed it and got a horrendous position in a blitz game. Maybe improvements can be found though, i'll look at that some time.
  
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #12 - 06/14/11 at 15:57:36
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Oblonskij wrote on 06/14/11 at 14:35:24:
Against 2. Bf4 there's also the option to try and hoist white with his own petard and delay Nf6.

Sample line: 1. d4 d5 2. Bf4 c5 3. e3 (e4 is critical but i think it's good for black after Nc6) Nc6 4. c3 Qb6 5. Qb3 c4 6. Qc2 Bf5.

The downside is 7. Qxf5 is now possible, after ...Qxb2 8. Qxd5 Qxa1 9. Qb5.


I thought this line was very good for White, based on an old SOS game of the month article on the NIC website.
  

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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #11 - 06/14/11 at 14:35:24
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Against 2. Bf4 there's also the option to try and hoist white with his own petard and delay Nf6.

Sample line: 1. d4 d5 2. Bf4 c5 3. e3 (e4 is critical but i think it's good for black after Nc6) Nc6 4. c3 Qb6 5. Qb3 c4 6. Qc2 Bf5.

The downside is 7. Qxf5 is now possible, after ...Qxb2 8. Qxd5 Qxa1 9. Qb5.
  
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #10 - 05/31/11 at 18:46:07
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Kanivakil wrote on 05/25/11 at 19:31:21:
What's the best setup against the London System? 

A subscription to Eric's section answers all such questions! Wink
  
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #9 - 05/31/11 at 17:44:01
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I continue to wonder at these questions about the best line against opening X, when the norm is that there isn't a best line.

BTW, regarding that KID setup with ...c5 and ...Qb6, there's an old idea of ...Be6 to try to rule out Qb3.  A Kamsky-Benjamin encounter from about twenty years ago was perhaps a model game for Black.
  
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #8 - 05/31/11 at 16:42:04
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When white plays a timid set-up, I generally find that an equal, playable middle game is often beyond their abilities too.

There are of course exceptions, but for me the way forward is to reach a comfortable position as Black and then outplay my opponent. Attempts to blow white out of the water are misplaced. White's position isn't bankrupt. White has simply given up on the advantage of the first move.

After the opening, just play chess and you should win.
  
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Kanivakil
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Re: Best Setup Against the London System?
Reply #7 - 05/26/11 at 19:12:47
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Thanks guys. You guys will probably see me ask a lot of these opening set-up questions. Thanks again. It is pretty disturbing when white plays for a timid set-up, so I just want to find a way to completely unbalance the position so that I could possibly have greater chances to outplay my opponent and perhaps win more games.
  
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