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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) C42-C43: White (Scotch Player) versus Petrov? (Read 17017 times)
Jupp53
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Re: C42-C43: White (Scotch Player) versus Petrov?
Reply #22 - 06/12/15 at 23:04:40
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After this game I waited for further games but till now I only found this earlier game:



Was there something in CC?
  

Medical textbooks say I should be dead since April 2002.
Dum spiro spero. Smiley
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Jupp53
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Re: C42-C43: White (Scotch Player) versus Petrov?
Reply #21 - 06/12/15 at 23:04:18
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After this game I waited for further games but till now I only found this earlier game:



Was there something in CC?
  

Medical textbooks say I should be dead since April 2002.
Dum spiro spero. Smiley
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Jupp53
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Re: C42-C43: White (Scotch Player) versus Petrov?
Reply #20 - 06/12/15 at 23:03:25
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After this game I waited for further games between masters but till now I only found this earlier game:



Was there something in CC?
  

Medical textbooks say I should be dead since April 2002.
Dum spiro spero. Smiley
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Jupp53
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Re: C42-C43: White (Scotch Player) versus Petrov?
Reply #19 - 06/12/15 at 23:02:55
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After this game I waited for further games between masters but till now I only found this earlier game:



Was there something in CC?
  

Medical textbooks say I should be dead since April 2002.
Dum spiro spero. Smiley
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Jupp53
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Re: C42-C43: White (Scotch Player) versus Petrov?
Reply #18 - 06/12/15 at 23:01:19
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After this game I waited for further games between masters but till now I only found this earlier game:


Was there something in CC?
  

Medical textbooks say I should be dead since April 2002.
Dum spiro spero. Smiley
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Jupp53
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Re: C42-C43: White (Scotch Player) versus Petrov?
Reply #17 - 06/12/15 at 23:00:00
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After this game I waited for further games between masters but till now I only found this earlier game:

Was there something in CC?
  

Medical textbooks say I should be dead since April 2002.
Dum spiro spero. Smiley
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MNb
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Re: White (Scotch Player) versus Petrov?
Reply #16 - 06/06/11 at 02:13:56
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Kleijn,C - Van Delft,M [C42]
NEDchT 0708 Meesterklasse KNSB (7), 2008



  

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Re: White (Scotch Player) versus Petrov?
Reply #15 - 06/06/11 at 01:31:30
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WSS wrote on 06/05/11 at 23:57:34:
MNb wrote on 06/02/11 at 00:24:12:
Does he address that 9...Bxa2 idea? It has been discussed before on this forum and I think it quite dangerous.


MNb, do you happen to recall the name of the thread where this was discussed?


"The Petroff: Grandmaster vs average player"
  
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Re: White (Scotch Player) versus Petrov?
Reply #14 - 06/05/11 at 23:57:34
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MNb wrote on 06/02/11 at 00:24:12:
Does he address that 9...Bxa2 idea? It has been discussed before on this forum and I think it quite dangerous.


MNb, do you happen to recall the name of the thread where this was discussed?
  
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Re: White (Scotch Player) versus Petrov?
Reply #13 - 06/03/11 at 15:10:39
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MNb wrote on 06/02/11 at 00:24:12:
Does he address that 9...Bxa2 idea? It has been discussed before on this forum and I think it quite dangerous.


Off the top of my head, I don't think he really addresses it well. I'll try to remember to look it up tonight when I have the book available.

Edit: Just checked, and he doesn't cover that at all. Remember, it is just a "Starting Out" book - it's supposed to present general ideas, not detailed lines.
« Last Edit: 06/04/11 at 02:18:10 by Fromper »  

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MNb
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Re: White (Scotch Player) versus Petrov?
Reply #12 - 06/02/11 at 00:24:12
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Does he address that 9...Bxa2 idea? It has been discussed before on this forum and I think it quite dangerous.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: White (Scotch Player) versus Petrov?
Reply #11 - 06/01/11 at 20:35:43
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Markovich wrote on 05/30/11 at 15:53:29:
WSS wrote on 05/30/11 at 14:54:04:
I don't see the Petrov Defense played at my local club and therefore I haven't spent much time on it in recent years.  I would like to strengthen my repertoire as White as I am becoming more active in tournament play.  I generally favor open positions (I play the open Sicilian as White) and have been playing the Scotch as White against 1...e5.  What lines would you recommend that I focus on learning for White against the Petrov as being both practical / economical and a sound try for an advantage against 2000+ competition? Which sources would you recommend?


A practical alternative against the Petroff, which also has a lot of sting in it, is 3.Nxe4 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.Nc3 Nxc3 6.dxc3.  I don't know if you have access to NIC Yearbooks, but it's been considered in some recent ones.


Neil McDonald's "Starting Out: 1. e4!" recommends this line. I like the resulting castling on opposite sides approach, though I've only had a chance to try it out once, and I blew the resulting middle game.

  

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Re: White (Scotch Player) versus Petrov?
Reply #10 - 06/01/11 at 00:24:45
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Markovich wrote on 05/30/11 at 15:53:29:
A practical alternative against the Petroff, which also has a lot of sting in it, is 3.Nxe4 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.Nc3 Nxc3 6.dxc3.  I don't know if you have access to NIC Yearbooks, but it's been considered in some recent ones.


Thanks Markovich.  I took a look at these lines on the NIC database and they seem like a viable and increasingly popular approach and suit my style.  I'm going to get a copy of the recent yearbook that included a survey of the line to look more closely.

MNb wrote on 05/30/11 at 17:58:02:
The simplest solution is changing your move order:
1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.Nf3 Bb4+ (Nc6 4.Nxd4 and you are happy) 4.Bd2 (4.Nbd2!?)
a) 4...Bc5 5.Bc4 Nc6 6.0-0 Nf6 (Nge7?! 7.Ng5) 7.Bf4 d6 8.Nbd2 with compensation;
b) 4...Qe7 5.Bd3 Nc6 6.0-0 Bxd2 (Bc5 7.e5) 7.Nbxd2 or 7.Qxd2,
c) 4....Bxd2+ 5.Qxd2 (5.Nbxd2) Nh6 6.Bc4 d6 7.0-0 Nc6 8.Nxd4 Nxd4 9.Qxd4 Magdorf-Langner, 1990, 0-0 =.
A plan with castling Queenside might be more attractive; compare 5...d6 (iso Nh6) 6.Nxd4 Nf6 7.Nc3 0-0 8.0-0-0 Re8 9.f3.

The easiest solution is not always the best or GM's would use 2.d4 far more often to reach the Scotch.


Thank you, MNb, for that interesting suggestion on move order.  I like some of the lines (especially the Queenside castling) but a few seem problematic to me as you warned.  I'll probably stay away from that approach unless I (or someone else) find improvements.

urusov wrote on 05/31/11 at 02:12:07:
You might check out this repertoire based on 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.d4 etc. which seems very Scotch-friendly:
http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/games/java/2008/petroff-d4.htm


Thanks urusov.  This approach also seems to have merit and can lead to some interesting positions.

Thank you all for your helpful suggestions!   Smiley
  
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Re: White (Scotch Player) versus Petrov?
Reply #9 - 05/31/11 at 02:12:07
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You might check out this repertoire based on 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.d4 etc. which seems very Scotch-friendly:
http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/games/java/2008/petroff-d4.htm
  
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Re: White (Scotch Player) versus Petrov?
Reply #8 - 05/30/11 at 23:08:57
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I notice that 3. Nxe5 d6 4. Nf3 Nxe4 5. c4, advocated by Larry Kaufman in a repertoire book some years ago, scores similarly well for White in NIC's online database.  It always puts me in mind of two things:  a game Evans-Bisguier (sort of a classic crush), and seeing a player rated in the 1900s reply erroneously with 5...c6 6. Nc3 d5 7. cd cd.
  
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Re: White (Scotch Player) versus Petrov?
Reply #7 - 05/30/11 at 21:59:21
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I use to play 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Ne5 d6 4.Nc4!? d5 5.Ne3 with idea c4 Nc3 to press d5 It's Sound ,not too well know, probably understimed(61 -39 in Mega2011) and it seem annoying black in practice.
But just my idea!
  

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Re: White (Scotch Player) versus Petrov?
Reply #6 - 05/30/11 at 19:38:10
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Markovich wrote on 05/30/11 at 15:53:29:
WSS wrote on 05/30/11 at 14:54:04:
I don't see the Petrov Defense played at my local club and therefore I haven't spent much time on it in recent years.  I would like to strengthen my repertoire as White as I am becoming more active in tournament play.  I generally favor open positions (I play the open Sicilian as White) and have been playing the Scotch as White against 1...e5.  What lines would you recommend that I focus on learning for White against the Petrov as being both practical / economical and a sound try for an advantage against 2000+ competition? Which sources would you recommend?


A practical alternative against the Petroff, which also has a lot of sting in it, is 3.Nxe4 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.Nc3 Nxc3 6.dxc3.  I don't know if you have access to NIC Yearbooks, but it's been considered in some recent ones.


But not like that:

« Last Edit: 05/30/11 at 21:58:58 by GMTonyKosten »  

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Re: White (Scotch Player) versus Petrov?
Reply #5 - 05/30/11 at 19:09:41
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3...Nf6 4. e5 Ne4 5. Qxd4 d5 is an old main line which as far as I know has been viewed as a little better for White for many years.  5...f5, as played by Morozevich against Bacrot, was considered dubious in the Yearbook in which that game appeared.
  
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Re: White (Scotch Player) versus Petrov?
Reply #4 - 05/30/11 at 19:00:05
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Especially as an unreconstructed Petroff enthusiast would probably play 3... Nf6 there, as in Bacrot - Morozevich   Biel 2003
  
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Re: White (Scotch Player) versus Petrov?
Reply #3 - 05/30/11 at 17:58:02
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The simplest solution is changing your move order:
1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.Nf3 Bb4+ (Nc6 4.Nxd4 and you are happy) 4.Bd2 (4.Nbd2!?)
a) 4...Bc5 5.Bc4 Nc6 6.0-0 Nf6 (Nge7?! 7.Ng5) 7.Bf4 d6 8.Nbd2 with compensation;
b) 4...Qe7 5.Bd3 Nc6 6.0-0 Bxd2 (Bc5 7.e5) 7.Nbxd2 or 7.Qxd2,
c) 4....Bxd2+ 5.Qxd2 (5.Nbxd2) Nh6 6.Bc4 d6 7.0-0 Nc6 8.Nxd4 Nxd4 9.Qxd4 Magdorf-Langner, 1990, 0-0 =.
A plan with castling Queenside might be more attractive; compare 5...d6 (iso Nh6) 6.Nxd4 Nf6 7.Nc3 0-0 8.0-0-0 Re8 9.f3.

The easiest solution is not always the best or GM's would use 2.d4 far more often to reach the Scotch.
  

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Re: White (Scotch Player) versus Petrov?
Reply #2 - 05/30/11 at 16:05:28
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Thats a decent line, but I would strongly consider the main lines of 3 d4/Nxe5 too. You get very open positions and lots of very classical play.

Lots of theory in principle of course but its all very classical chess so I'd think only a major drawback at quite a high level.
  
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Re: White (Scotch Player) versus Petrov?
Reply #1 - 05/30/11 at 15:53:29
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WSS wrote on 05/30/11 at 14:54:04:
I don't see the Petrov Defense played at my local club and therefore I haven't spent much time on it in recent years.  I would like to strengthen my repertoire as White as I am becoming more active in tournament play.  I generally favor open positions (I play the open Sicilian as White) and have been playing the Scotch as White against 1...e5.  What lines would you recommend that I focus on learning for White against the Petrov as being both practical / economical and a sound try for an advantage against 2000+ competition? Which sources would you recommend?


A practical alternative against the Petroff, which also has a lot of sting in it, is 3.Nxe4 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.Nc3 Nxc3 6.dxc3.  I don't know if you have access to NIC Yearbooks, but it's been considered in some recent ones.
  

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C42-C43: White (Scotch Player) versus Petrov?
05/30/11 at 14:54:04
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I don't see the Petrov Defense played at my local club and therefore I haven't spent much time on it in recent years.  I would like to strengthen my repertoire as White as I am becoming more active in tournament play.  I generally favor open positions (I play the open Sicilian as White) and have been playing the Scotch as White against 1...e5.  What lines would you recommend that I focus on learning for White against the Petrov as being both practical / economical and a sound try for an advantage against 2000+ competition? Which sources would you recommend?
« Last Edit: 07/17/11 at 18:47:39 by Smyslov_Fan »  
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