In Attack the Spanish by Brunello he gives 4.......Nd4!? being best met by 5. ef it seems Nc3 is played in order to stop the e4 advance by white.  giving 5.......c6 6. Ba4 which could transpose to the games you mentioned.  That is all the coverage he gives and he recommends a repertoire around taking on e4. 

Hope this helps.

hi guys,
I was thinking about expanding my repertoire with 3...f5 in the Ruy. Regarding the line 4. Nc3 fe 5. Ne4 Nf6 as a safe option (an statement that can be discussed but it's not my idea now) i want to spice things a bit...and remembered the dubious line 4...Nd4?!.

If you look for ECO coverage of the line you'll find that there are several paths to get a clear advantage for white (5. Ba4 and 5. Bc4). I remember an article writen by De la Villa with some ideas but i've lost it    Here is what i found without a deep study of the line:

Most played line seems to be 5. Ba4 Cf6 6.0-0 Bc5 7. Ne5 0-0 8.Cd3 (with amazement i found in my corr database countless games with 8. ef d5 9.Ne2 Qd6 10.Nd4 Bd4 11.Cf3 Cg4! and white has problems) fe4!? 9. Nc5 d5 10. d3 Ng4 11. N5e4! de 12. Ce4 Qh4 13.h3
This position has been played in various corr and OTB games. In Timman-Herrmann, Bad Lautemberg 1977 black played 13...Cf3?, which is suposed to be a bad move. Better is 13...Ne5 14.f4 Bg4 Now Timman in his notes to his game vs Herrmann gives the line 15.Qe1! Cef3+ 16.gf Cf3+ 17. Rf3 Qe1+ 18.Re1 Qh4 19.hg Qg4 20.Rf2 with a clear (maybe decisive) advantage for white.

What is quite puzzling is that there are no games with Qe1 (i haven't found) and everyone plays 15.Qd2, which leads to equal play after 15...Bf3. Even Herrmann won a game in this line many years after his game with Timman.

¿How is posible that everyone with white has ignored in practice Timman's sugestion?

I'm looking for improvements in this line for black but i haven't found anything substantial here (no great surprise, as the line smells a bit to be true, here black is playing for a perpetual at best). The line looks and is suspicious but has good practical results so finding something to make  it viable would make the whole  a interesting surprise weapon. Any thoughts?