Arcticmonkey wrote on 06/02/11 at 15:22:23:

• Nina Simone
• Keith Hudson
• Orchestra Baobab
• Kraftwerk
• Joe Higgs
• Dusty Springfield
• Franco & TPOK Jazz
• Stan Getz
• Suicide
• The Smiths
• Johnny Osbourne
• The Clash
• Bob Dylan
• Willi Williams
• Billy Bragg

PS. I hate Pink Floyd.

@ErictheRed

Yes, Roy Buchanan was a favourite of mine, too.  Kossoff had amazing tone and was pretty special.
The best guitarist I was lucky enough to see play here in the UK was a guy called Vernon Reid who used to play in a band called Living Colour, an 80s funk/metal/jazz type of band, ahead of their time conceptually but with the burden of some lumpy songs and a lead singer who was occasionally flat. Anyway, Vernon is amazing and although prone to overplaying he's worth a listen. 
Similarly to the discussion here abut Dylan, Pink Floyd are one of those bands I simply never 'got' - I don't like any of it, really, despite knowing how revered they are. 
I also like Tom Verlaine of the band Television; his music was structurally interesting and didn't rely on pentatonic scales too readily, for example, unusually for the genre. His track (and album) Marquee Moon still sounds quite fresh today, nearly 35 years on.
 
Still, I agree that it's obviously futile to try to decide what or who are the best ever, when it comes to music.  There's so much choice...



 

Yea the solo in 'Time' is insane. 

To be perfectly honest, i enjoy the solo at the end of 'pigs (three different ones)'.

I totally agree that there is no best band ever. How would you prove it? obviously popularity doesnt make sense, otherwise justin bieber would be the best artist ever. You also can't say to someone, 'No you don't enjoy that, your wrong about ur own feelings about the song', OR 'My opinion counts more than yours because i'm more educated'. So, its just all opinion. 

Still, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, and Dream Theater (although they really need to work on their appearance, they look disgraceful all the time, even though their insane musicians you can't look bad every time people see you) are my favorite bands since 1970 i suppose. 

Cool responses in general

@MNb:

The Nederlandse Blues Scene is great since years and I was happy to live in Aachen for 16 years and having excellent live bands in the neighbourhood.

You're right too that there's more than the six reasons in the article. And you're right that Gentle Giant is great. But they aren't ugly in my ears. Their dodecaphonism needs some adaption, but then you'll start singing with them. 

Hi Eric,

I've been a fan of J Mascis since buying You're Living All Over Me in my youth. His guitar playing is very underrated and although often compared to that of Neil Young I must say I prefer the Dinosaur Jr music - one thing that has surprised me is how the new records (Farm, Beyond) actually sound better than the 80s/90s stuff, something many artists fail to achieve.
I know 3 or 4 of the other artists you list but they don't really do much for me, but as you mentioned Calexico I should add that I was/am a big fan of Thin White Rope, should you remember them...?
I was a guitar playing teen myself and grew up on The Clash, Husker Du and Stevie Ray Vaughan, who inspired me to listen to a lot of blues. 
I think SRV outdid Hendrix, actually, and he's required listening for any guitarist, of course.
As a Black Keys fan do you also like the Jon Spencer Blues Explosion?

ErictheRed wrote on 06/04/11 at 13:52:05:

@Eric:
I have forgotten to write that this kind of music works better on stage indeed. In The Netherlands this kind of blues is quite popular. When on some local music festival I run into an unknown band (the only name I remember is Eelco Gelling) playing rock'n'roll, boogie and blues I am lost for the duration of the concert. I sincerely hope that culture will never disappear.
As you love Led Zep too your musical knowledge is incomplete if you haven't checked Budgie too. Moreover I would like to recommend I'd love to change the World by Alvin Lee's Ten Years After.
I'm afraid the other artists you mention are not for me.
You should ask TalJechin for Johnny Cash. He has explained in a crystal clear way why I (me, personally, the subjective guy I am) should not listen to him (and thus others should).

@Jupp53:
while I think all 6 reasons are valid there may be more. Like Downward I think emotion very important - and I hear it were not that many people can; if you want some intentionally ugly aggression try Gentle Giant's Design to give an extreme example. Just atmosphere is not enough for me though; I demand clever ideas too. That doesn't necessarily mean that music has to be complex; clever ideas can be very simple too.

MNb wrote on 06/04/11 at 12:28:51:


I whole-heartedly agree that the music is rather derivative.  But to me that's the amazing charm; The Black Keys were able to revisit time-trodden blues riffs and change them just enough to make them feel fresh and new again--at least to me, and I've listened to a LOT of this kind of music.  People like Joe Bonamassa bore the crap out of me, to be honest, but The Black Keys blow me away with the amount of expression they're able to convey with only a guitar and drumset.

By the way, I think their music is much better when performed live, which is why I posted some of those videos.  Also check out Chulahoma, which is maybe my favorite cd of theirs, even though the whole thing consists of covers of Junior Kimbrough's songs.  If you compare the originals to the Black Keys' versions I think you'll see what I mean about changing the songs just enough to make them interesting all over again.

So far we haven't really discussed other genres besides "rock"; what about Jonny Cash?  Richard Thompson?  What about those very original "shoegaze" type bands that lasted only a little while, like My Bloody Valentine and Slowdive?  There's just too much good music out there, in wildly different genres, to be able to say what's best.  I mean, if it weren't for MBV, Slowdive, Ride, The Cure, Dinosaur Jr, etc., we'd still be listening to Great White, Skid Row, Def Leppard, etc. etc.

I love music!

Jupp53 wrote on 06/04/11 at 09:33:49:

I have been waiting for this. While I certainly don't want to rule out the important role of taste I also think there is more to it.
Everybody prefers Mozart to Salieri, even the latter (and no, he didn't kill Mozart for it).
There is a modern pendant: everybody prefers The Beatles to The Monkeys.
So there must be more than just I like this or I like that.

I liked Goodbye Babylon and Unknown Brother. The music is rather derivative, but I don't care when the riffs are great. Anyone who likes this should check Budgie too. Begin with Guts and Crash Course in Brain Surgery. Then try In the Grip of a Tyrefitter's Hand.

I think it all comes down to what kind of music appeals to us. While I agree that The Black Keys are an excellent band praised by critics and fans alike, they are just not my thing.
So I think the whole idea of 'the best band ever' does not make much sense.

Thanks. I just have listened to Thickfreakness. The introductory riff is rather similar to Alvin Lee's Good Morning Little Schoolgirl. The voice is a bit thin. I suppose this song works better on stage.

TalJechin wrote on 06/03/11 at 21:27:12:

If you say so. I have quite a good and long memory for melodies, but have a hard time to remember Dylan's. Check these two introductions of two obvious fans: hardly an analysis of music.

http://starling.rinet.ru/music/dylan.htm
http://www.johnmcferrinmusicreviews.org/dylan.htm

Now the remarkable thing is that both reviewers (and possibly you too) assume that I hate the music of Bob Dylan. That's not the case. I just think it uninteresting in all five aspects I mentioned on the previous page.
Music I hate is an entirely different category. Try Dennie Christian, André Hazes (they or not even the worst examples of their genre, but that's something I really don't want to remember) or House Music.

TalJechin wrote on 06/03/11 at 21:27:12:

No, I just don't have much feeling for poetry, analyzable or not.
It's a rather ironic statement from somebody who seems to lack the imagination to recognize a good melody from Schosty:

TalJechin wrote on 06/03/11 at 18:20:28:


Stigma wrote on 06/03/11 at 21:38:38:


I completely agree. When it comes to catchy melodies this combination - in pop/rock - possibly is only surpassed by Ray Davies from the Kinks and only approached by the two B's from Abba. They hold their own against the most melodic classical music too. Beethoven's melodies are generally much poorer. As I asked an admirer once: could you sing the melody from the 3rd movement from the 9th Symphony?
As far as my prejudices are concerned: I don't own a single album from the Beatles nor Abba, while I only have one compilation from the Kinks, which is gaining dust last years.

ErictheRed wrote on 06/04/11 at 03:10:10:

As my internet connection is too slow for even short movies (and I lack the patience) could you give two or three songtitles to begin with?

As an amateur guitar player who occasionally gets paid to play gigs, I think the best band out there right now that just kicks butt and "rocks" is definitely The Black Keys.  Here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luwp5iZD8wQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLCrgQ7DR44
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsP4kBTa9X4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8tBPidveM4

I think the following video is perhaps the best live performance I've ever seen for the hard rock/blues genre.  They basically put on an amazing clinic about the role of each instrument, notice especially Paul Kossof (the guitar player) switching effortlessly from rhythm to lead and back again.  It reminds me of a perfectly played Smyslov game.  In another thread I compared people who only study tactics to musicians who only play scales; these guys are the real deal who know how to put a whole performance together:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FhCilozomo

I'm also a huge fan of a lot of lesser known bands, how about Dinosaur Jr?  J Mascis is, in my opinion, one of the best unknown rock guitarists out there (obviously there are a million):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1FJ_ChQh9s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8wqA_B9lCQ

Anyway I hope someone enjoys some of that music.

To be honest I've never been a big Beatles fan but I have to respect them for their pioneering work.  Pink Floyd was a favorite of mine when I was younger...I also think Porcupine Tree has made some very interesting stuff lately.

And oh crap how about Alison Krauss with Union Station?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32_BE6Pf6x0

I dunno, there's just too much good music out there.

   

MNb wrote on 06/03/11 at 20:50:23:

Lennon solo was much more uneven than the Beatles. But songs like "Starting Over" and "Woman" are just overall good songs IMHO - also in terms of melody and instrumentation. The obvious Elvis impression of the former is quite funny too.

The same with McCartney's solo career - he made some good songs both alone and with Wings, but lots of mediocre stuff too. It seems John and Paul needed each other to create true musical greatness, but they just couldn't cope with each other anymore...

TalJechin wrote on 06/03/11 at 18:20:28:

Well, as much I think Dylan boring, I won't deny his relevance in the 60's. He mattered a lot more than only for his fans. I don't think you can say that for the 70's and 80's. The award illustrates that he regained at least some of it (and maybe more, I wouldn't know) afterwards. Much to my surprise, I admit immediately.
To give a more extreme example: I completely dislike Michael Jackson, Prince and Madonna. But I won't deny the relevance of their 80's output.
At the other hand, no matter how I admire Roslavetz, I'll never say that his music was relevant. It didn't get the chance first because of Prokofjev and Stravinsky and later because of Soviet censorship. Until today he only matters for a handful of nuts like me.
You should follow your advise yourself: listen, think and only then write. Sjostakovitsj is full of great melodies, which are way less trivial than those of Dylan (I have heard more of his songs than you seem to assume). The first ten notes of that Viola Sonata, pizzicato (plucked) on open strings, provide an unforgettable one.
When fans - and I have met quite a few - praise Dylan they invariably point at nothing but his lyrics. Same for Lennon solo btw. That's OK with me, but don't try to tell me then that his notes are so interesting. And you nicely illustrate this:

TalJechin wrote on 06/03/11 at 18:20:28:

Or rather: he is reciting poetry about life. Because it's the words that matter, not the notes.

Here you'll find some lyrics put on music by Sjostakovitsj:

http://www.sequencer.com/kcs/music/shost_babiy.php#english

So here we have an entire orchestra and a choir singing about life - or rather, in the first movement, about how people end the life of other people. An unforgettable experience for me (and many others; the hall was completely full) in the Amsterdam Concertgebouw, with the Concertgebouw Orchestra and Choir and Bernard Haitink conducting.

Btw, I just came to think of a (Danish?) study from about ten years ago which dealt with 'useful elevator music', one of the conclusions was that playing Händel was the best way to get rid of homeless people sleeping in the elevator...

Quote:


You speak from experience? Personally I have no idea how one could live on the bottom of a pond...

Schosty has never been relevant to me as I prefer music with melodies and lyrics while you prefer the opposite. I'm not sure what you put into the word "relevance", but it seems a bit superficial to equate that with awards. 

Dylan got labelled as a "protest singer" in the 60s, but if you listen to his songs you'd realise he's just singing about life, without an agenda. 

It's a pity that so many make up their minds about him based on prejudice like, he's a: folk singer / protest singer / religious nut / 60s icon / old dude /  etc etc.   

A good rule for everything is: "listen, think, speak" in that order.

On the other hand, Sjostakovitsj has never been relevant. The only mention of him is in jokes a la: "This is Mozart" "No it's actually Schostakowitsch" "How do you spell that?" "It's Mozart."

Obviously there must be many contemporary classical musicians and somebody who is into this stuff will probably mention them here. I personally like minimalists - Philip Glass and Steve Reich.

MNb wrote on 06/03/11 at 01:08:05:

Sure, there are exceptions. It depends how far one strays from one's musical roots, but clearly atonal music is a niche product - only a small percentage of people come to embrace it. I'm not there yet myself - my whole musical taste is built around good melodies. This is not a "decision rule" I consciously use, just a pattern that emerges when I think about what I intuitively like. I can appreciate some light dissonance like the occasional jazz record or Mozart's Dissonance Quartet, but not full atonality.

The first music I listened to was my father's LP collection, heavily dominated by Mozart, Beethoven and the Beatles. Soon thereafter I had (all quite coincidental) hangups on Billy Joel, the Bee Gees, Michael Jackson and Queen. So it seems obvious why I crave good melodies so much; all the above were extremely good at that. You could argue that I should have developed further away from that starting point, but honestly I have tried...

There's even some psychological research on how the kind of scales common in your own culture influences you to prefer tunes with an 8- 5- 12- or whatever-tone scale. That's why traditional music from India, China and the Middle East often sounds so foreign to Westerners (and presumably the other way around, at least before the current globalization of Western music)

Btw. I hear plenty of aggression in the most intense recordings of Beethoven, Vivaldi or Shostakovich. That's even a kind of aggression that grabs me more than a bunch of hard rockers dressed in black screaming and killing their fuzz-pedals to make as much noise as possible.

As long as everyone is aware such lists are always subjective and depend on what music you've been "indoctrinated" with from childhood and youth, I guess it's a harmless exercise.

Indispensable artists TO ME include:

Leonard Cohen
Queen
Billy Joel
The Beatles
Bee Gees
Dire Straits
Simon and Garfunkel (and Paul Simon solo)
Jim Steinman's songs (no matter who sings them)
Carpenters
Eagles
Enya
Elton John
Sting

... and I could go on and on - there's a lot of good rock, pop, folk etc. out there. Though sadly the quality dropped throughout the 90s and 00s.

I love classical and some classical-ish film music and synth music too, but I can't bring myself to put it all on the same list. It's like comparing apples and oranges!

Greatest music artists ever in no particular order:

Tsjaikovsky, Mussorgsky, Rozlavets, Sjostakovitsj, Ustvolskaja, Vladimir Ashkenazy, David Oistrakh, Mravinsky, Svetlanov, Rostropovich, Visjnevskaja, Rozjdestvensky (OK, he is questionable), Borodin Trio and Borodin Quartet.

I'll trade the whole list of Arctic Monkey plus Dylan plus the rest for even one of those great Russians.
The only ones to approach their levels are the Beatles indeed (Dylan? gimme a break - he is a poet, not a musician or composer) and Ritchie Blackmore, as they had the same sense of melody. Only the latter was capable of reaching the same emotional depths with his melodies.
When he combined with the best rockvocalist of all time, Ian Gillan (who would destroy his voice later) and one of the greatest Hammond players, Jon Lord, with a very fine drummer, Ian Paice, Blackmore was in the tightest and most exciting rock'n'roll band ever: Deep Purple Mark II, albeit for a very short time. Check one of live recordings from 1972. Never did a band kick so much ass as Deep Purple did on Made in Japan. Dream Theater, technically speaking no weaklings, could not reproduce it.

Just bored, any ideas?
Heres a few ideas:
-Led Zeppelin
-The Beatles
-Ella Fitzgerald? suppose she mostly did covers though...
-Queen
-Abba (though not my cup of tea)
-Rolling Stones (If you're into that)
-Dream Theater 
-The Pokemon Theme Song Band
-Dragonforce (lol-Herman ree anyone??)
-Justin Bieber
-Pink Floyd!!
-Nirvana, personally i think theyre not great but whatever
-Coldplay (If anyone agrees with this one, sit at a piano and play any random 3 chords, i bet coldplay will have based a song on it)

So yes, any other suggestions?