Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) B76: 9.0-0-0 12.Bd4 (Read 31502 times)
AJZ
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 104
Joined: 03/19/15
Re: B76: 9.0-0-0 12.Bd4
Reply #28 - 07/01/16 at 10:32:51
Post Tools
Dragan Glas wrote on 06/21/16 at 16:06:33:
Greetings,

Old topic, I know, but just came across it after a long hiatus.

Instead of 16...,Be6, which seems passive as it invites 17Nc5 with exchanges, I was wondering about 16...,Nf4 - obviously threatening the fork on e2 - with 17...,Bf5/a6 to follow, or 16...,Bf5 (17Bxd5, cd just opens up the c-file with the rooks coming to c8 and b8) followed by 17...,Nf4 and 18...,Ra/f-d8.

This seems to, at least, make things a bit more interesting rather than exchanging into a so-so ending.

Another option, though less appealing, is 16...,e5 with either 17...,Be6/f5 or 17...,Nf4 or 17...,Rd8 (or 17...,Rad8, if the bishop's moved).

Not sure how appealing/useful these would be - no silicon pet on this laptop.

Kindest regards,

James


16...Nf4?? is dropping a rook on d8
16...Bf5! would be my choice for not that hard equality as GM Jones shows
16...e5?! don't like in such positions
16...Be6!? GM Jones in his book analyse it in details
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Dragan Glas
Senior Member
****
Offline


"If I, like Solomon, ...
could have my wish -
"

Posts: 424
Location: Ireland
Joined: 06/25/06
Gender: Male
Re: B76: 9.0-0-0 12.Bd4
Reply #27 - 06/21/16 at 16:06:33
Post Tools
Greetings,

Old topic, I know, but just came across it after a long hiatus.

Instead of 16...,Be6, which seems passive as it invites 17Nc5 with exchanges, I was wondering about 16...,Nf4 - obviously threatening the fork on e2 - with 17...,Bf5/a6 to follow, or 16...,Bf5 (17Bxd5, cd just opens up the c-file with the rooks coming to c8 and b8) followed by 17...,Nf4 and 18...,Ra/f-d8.

This seems to, at least, make things a bit more interesting rather than exchanging into a so-so ending.

Another option, though less appealing, is 16...,e5 with either 17...,Be6/f5 or 17...,Nf4 or 17...,Rd8 (or 17...,Rad8, if the bishop's moved).

Not sure how appealing/useful these would be - no silicon pet on this laptop.

Kindest regards,

James
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bragesjo
God Member
*****
Offline


Long live the Nimzo Indian

Posts: 1663
Location: Eskilstuna
Joined: 06/30/06
Gender: Male
Re: B76: 9.0-0-0 12.Bd4
Reply #26 - 07/31/14 at 10:28:17
Post Tools
bragesjo wrote on 07/29/14 at 18:44:59:
The sharper a position are, the more moves are forced for both sides.
The sharper a poisiton are and mores are forced the number of forced draws increases.


I forgot one thing so I am quating myself Smiley

This part of my post is not only true to Dragon. As a matter of fact this is my conslusion when studing openings in generall, the sharper variation the more moves are forced and more forced draws. I for example changed some of my original intended lines in Nmzo Indian when I discovered this thing.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
bragesjo
God Member
*****
Offline


Long live the Nimzo Indian

Posts: 1663
Location: Eskilstuna
Joined: 06/30/06
Gender: Male
Re: B76: 9.0-0-0 12.Bd4
Reply #25 - 07/29/14 at 18:44:59
Post Tools
Bc4 yugoslav leeds to sharper play than 9 0-0-0, and it also increases blacks counterplay but also increases whites atacking chanses.
The sharper a position are, the more moves are forced for both sides.
The sharper a poisiton are and mores are forced the number of forced draws increases.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Jamal Munshi
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1
Joined: 07/29/14
Re: B76: 9.0-0-0 12.Bd4
Reply #24 - 07/29/14 at 16:53:44
Post Tools
i did a comparison of 9. Bc4 and 9. O-O-O and the only difference i found is that 9. Bc4 is more drawish and 9. O-O-O with castling on opposite sides leads to more decisive games. the analysis is available online and i would be grateful for your comments. my paper may be found by googling "pairwise comparison of chess opening variations"

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Claus Jensen
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love Chess!

Posts: 72
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Joined: 08/15/11
Gender: Male
Re: B76: 9.0-0-0 12.Bd4
Reply #23 - 05/04/13 at 08:24:28
Post Tools
This CC game illustrates how unpleasant the position is to play for black

  

Claus Jensen
http://www.clausjensen.com
150+ annotated chess videos
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
bragesjo
God Member
*****
Offline


Long live the Nimzo Indian

Posts: 1663
Location: Eskilstuna
Joined: 06/30/06
Gender: Male
Re: B76: 9.0-0-0 12.Bd4
Reply #22 - 05/18/12 at 09:01:14
Post Tools
I think white has the slightly better chanses but nothing special.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Claus Jensen
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love Chess!

Posts: 72
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Joined: 08/15/11
Gender: Male
Re: B76: 9.0-0-0 12.Bd4
Reply #21 - 05/16/12 at 14:56:53
Post Tools
  

Claus Jensen
http://www.clausjensen.com
150+ annotated chess videos
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Claus Jensen
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love Chess!

Posts: 72
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Joined: 08/15/11
Gender: Male
Re: B76: 9.0-0-0 12.Bd4
Reply #20 - 05/16/12 at 14:53:04
Post Tools
The line 12...Bxd4 13.Qxd4 Qb6 14.Na4 Qc7 15.Bc4 Rd8 16.Bb3 Be6 17.Nc5 Nf4 18.Nxe6 Nxe6 19.Qe3 Nf4

* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *


leads to this ending. Isn't this slightly favourable for white?
Exchange rooks and queen, then you have bishop vs knight and solid pawns vs not so solid pawns Smiley

This very position has arisen at least twice.
In one game, Heine Nielsen drew as black against Adams and in another game Heine Nielsens girlfriend Cmilyte drew as black as well. So perhaps it's not so easy after all?
(I'm posting these two games in the next post...)
  

Claus Jensen
http://www.clausjensen.com
150+ annotated chess videos
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
bragesjo
God Member
*****
Offline


Long live the Nimzo Indian

Posts: 1663
Location: Eskilstuna
Joined: 06/30/06
Gender: Male
Re: B76: 9.0-0-0 12.Bd4
Reply #19 - 03/10/12 at 22:13:12
Post Tools
Its been a while since last post at this forum.

Today I crushed a FM who plays i swedish elite in a strange variation of 12 .. Nxc3. White played 13 Qxc3 Bh6+ 14 Be3 Bxe3 15 Qxe3 Qb6 and instead of accepting the pawn opponnet played 16 Qa3 immidiatly and after Be6 it became a standard position of 12 .. Nxc3 with the difference that material was equal and I got very good play and won by a combination after a blunder by opponent. The funny thing is that several moves later in the game my opponnet captured that e7 pawn wth the queen. However both of us had been drinking a lot before when we was at party after a mutal chess playing friends daughters baptism.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Dragan Glas
Senior Member
****
Offline


"If I, like Solomon, ...
could have my wish -
"

Posts: 424
Location: Ireland
Joined: 06/25/06
Gender: Male
Re: 9.0-0-0 12.Bd4
Reply #18 - 11/28/11 at 19:05:33
Post Tools
Greetings,

JamesH wrote on 06/05/11 at 20:02:27:
Spree K wrote on 06/05/11 at 19:07:09:
The 12...Bxd4 line has been causing White some issues, e.g., 13. Qxd4 Qb6 14. Na4 Qc7! as played by Carlsen. The current verdict seems to be that White cannot get an advantage.

although these Bxd4 lines do seem to equalise, they generally seem to go into a fairly level ending, maybe a minute advantage for black in some lines. The problem personally is that when playing such a variation as the dragon, i'd like somesort of complex middle game as oppose to a rook endgame :/.

Note to GMTonyKosten/Mods:

Perhaps, it might be an idea to start a Endgame section where such endings could be analysed/assessed to help players - like JamesH and me! - to decide whether to try and stay in a middle-game by taking (unnecessary?) risks or bite the bullet and go for a "equal" ending.

If nothing else, it may reveal that - being better prepared for such endings - there are better chances for Black to win!? Wink

Kindest regards,

James
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bragesjo
God Member
*****
Offline


Long live the Nimzo Indian

Posts: 1663
Location: Eskilstuna
Joined: 06/30/06
Gender: Male
Re: B76: 9.0-0-0 12.Bd4
Reply #17 - 10/12/11 at 18:41:44
Post Tools
This game was annotated at subscription section. However I think white can simply transpose to mainline instead of grabbing the pawn.


  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
gewgaw
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 682
Location: europe
Joined: 09/09/04
Re: B76: 9.0-0-0 12.Bd4
Reply #16 - 10/12/11 at 18:35:22
Post Tools
Bibs wrote on 10/12/11 at 13:32:39:
Presume everyone caught this game:

12 Bd4 e5
13 Bc5 Rb8

Had a Houdini through it, brain somewhat switched on, all seemed entirely sensible.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1630017


The plug-in doesnt work; did white take the exchange on f8 and win a pawn on d5?
  

The older, the better - over 2200 and still rising.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bibs
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 2230
Joined: 10/24/06
Re: B76: 9.0-0-0 12.Bd4
Reply #15 - 10/12/11 at 13:32:39
Post Tools
Presume everyone caught this game:

12 Bd4 e5
13 Bc5 Rb8

Had a Houdini through it, brain somewhat switched on, all seemed entirely sensible.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1630017
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
AZ
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 12
Joined: 07/16/09
Re: 9.0-0-0 12.Bd4
Reply #14 - 10/11/11 at 08:08:09
Post Tools
Quote:
finally im sure the whole "mainline" after 12...e5 cant be refuted? I imagine somone has done some more recent analysis on this line: 12...e5 13.Bc5 Be6 14.Ne4 Rb8!? my fairly dated database gives several moves for white here such as 15. Bc4 15.h4 15.g4 and 15.c4. Ill avoid posting reams of analysis here, but this position seems just consistently better for white, and black doesnt seem to get sufficient play, I hope i am wrong Cheesy anyone got any analysis on this line? thanks Smiley



For me the only problem with 14...Rb8 line is 15.Bc4 Re8 16.h4 f5 17.Ng5 e4 18.Bb3! Qf6 19.Bd4! and white is better. Any improvements here?
« Last Edit: 10/11/11 at 10:00:44 by MNb »  

Always the black side of the Dragon!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo