Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) opening DVDs (Read 14729 times)
ChevyBanginStyle
Full Member
***
Offline


2 \infty & *CRUNCH*

Posts: 238
Joined: 01/03/10
Re: opening DVDs
Reply #18 - 06/20/11 at 05:49:22
Post Tools
I sometimes watch videos when I get started with an opening, so I have an overview and know what is important. I tend to spend a lot of time on details, so it can take me a while to read an opening book. After I watch a video on an opening, I know my knowledge is rather superficial, but it gives me a better idea of how to spend further study on the opening. It's practical to have a little knowledge about some minor lines when focusing on the bigger stuff. Quite often I do not adopt the lines I see; it really depends on the quality of the presentation. I remember liking opening presentations by Davies, Bologan, Ziegler, and Gustafsson. Ftacnik has useful information, but a difficult pace. He reminds me of a university professor rushing through an enormous amount of material in a lecture. Martin- ehh... sometimes it comes across like he got a few ideas from some recent games, pulled up some extra games from a search engine, and made up a few comments on the fly.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gwnn
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 472
Joined: 03/21/11
Re: opening DVDs
Reply #17 - 06/19/11 at 22:10:05
Post Tools
actually I have only the Gustafsson dvd's and I was asking about them. I didn't want to name them because I didn't want this topic to derail (well maybe it did anyway)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Uhohspaghettio
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 515
Joined: 02/23/11
Re: opening DVDs
Reply #16 - 06/17/11 at 15:33:54
Post Tools
Perhaps by listening to them you can assimilate their thought processes also a little. It's not something done consciously, more how you react to various positions. Vicarious/obervational learning can be very subconscious and hard to prove, but maybe you are led on the right path on how to think of such positions, from their tone etc. better than from books? Though book-learning is definitely faster for more solid facts or rote learning, probably due to the fact that you can rapidly go back and forth exactly as you like and you read faster than you can listen.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Arcticmonkey
Full Member
***
Offline


Russell Peters ftw

Posts: 118
Joined: 02/21/11
Re: opening DVDs
Reply #15 - 06/17/11 at 12:38:59
Post Tools
Jan Gustafsson made a couple of good DVD's on 1.e4 e5 for Black.
The one that i own is pretty good as it contains his home analysis (even though i had to organise it myself which took a little while, chessbase; use editors!) but i also enjoyed his character and his presentation.
There is also just enough analysis to get you by in the second one (Which i own, dont own the first one but seen a friends and suffice to say im too shit to play the marshall).

But yea i suppose that you've got to look at which audience the book/DVD appeals to. Obviously a lot less work goes into DVD's, but i mean the general audience (i think) for people who are looking to improve is 1400-2200 which these DVD's are suited for. Do they need/have time to go through lots of variations? I'm not so sure.

And yes, Marin is an extremely good author and etc, and i know thats its the same price as an Andrew Martin DVD which i agree is unfair. But, i suppose there's economics/business studies going into that which i certainly dont understand. Unfortunately thats just the way it is, however opening DVD's aren't all that bad. At least they give us some idea about what a person is actually thinking. 

ANYWAY, honestly i think the best DVD's are this:
-Jan Gustafsson: Marshall and Open Games DVD's
-Daniel King PP 1-15 (although theres a mistake in PP 15 in my thread i think!)
-Karsten Mueller Endgames.

Thats it. Most other opening DVD's dont give more analysis than what they explain (except maybe Bojkov's? Im not sure i dont own it) therefore making it inferior (in my view).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10778
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: opening DVDs
Reply #14 - 06/17/11 at 10:25:14
Post Tools
Fromper wrote on 06/16/11 at 22:02:19:
do I really have to study that level of detail in advance, before beginning to play the opening?

Personally I like to do some more detailed analysis on critical variations. The ideas there often can be used in other lines too ánd I will feel confident that I can handle the position if my opponent knows what he/she is doing.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
chk
God Member
*****
Offline


a pawn is a pawn

Posts: 1063
Location: Athens
Joined: 10/26/06
Gender: Male
Re: opening DVDs
Reply #13 - 06/17/11 at 08:06:26
Post Tools
Why not use the best of both worlds? Some DVDs are great as are some of the books. imo the rest is not worth investing your time into.

My only experience with a DVD was quite recently when I took over the Caro-Kann as Black. I first got Schandorff's book which was very nice but rather intimidating for a newcomer. I then got Bologan's DVD which is lean, coherent and to the point.

My chosen repertoire now consists of a mix of Bologan lines, Schandorff lines and certain other discussed with a C-K 'connoisseur'.

One thing I tried and did not particulalry worked for me was to casually look at the DVD to get the ideas. It much better worked for me when I started to use it like a real book, i.e. taking detailed notes, completing the gaps and making my own decisions regarding variations.

Of course if money is an issue then get only books.  Cool
  

"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fromper
Senior Member
****
Offline


GrandPatzer

Posts: 378
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Joined: 03/12/10
Gender: Male
Re: opening DVDs
Reply #12 - 06/16/11 at 22:02:19
Post Tools
Several people have pointed out that DVD's have less information than books. True, but how much information does the average player really need? As a 1700 player, I need an introduction to the ideas and mainlines of an opening I want to play, not the most detailed theory. As things come up in my own games, I can look up the further details in a database of recent GM games and/or ask on sites like this one. Having that info in a book gives me one more tool to use for that, but do I really have to study that level of detail in advance, before beginning to play the opening? Not at my level.

So my two reasons for preferring DVD's over books (at least for openings):

1. I just learn better from the audio/visual input than from reading. Always have. That's why I did well in school just by sitting in the classes, soaking up the information, without having to study the books much.

2. When I study openings, I really just need an intro to the opening. After getting into playing it, having a more detailed reference could be useful, but a 300 page database dump isn't what I need to get me started. I do own books on many of the openings I play, but I only use them as references to look things up, not to sit and read the whole thing. I've only sat and read an entire opening book cover to cover once, and that was a light read compared to most modern opening books.

  

GrandPatzer!!!

1777 peak USCF rating - currently 1620 from coming back rusty
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
zoo
Ex Member


Re: opening DVDs
Reply #11 - 06/16/11 at 18:43:36
Post Tools
gwnn wrote on 06/16/11 at 12:29:19:
How to efficiently use opening DVDs? I looked for a topic on this but couldn't find one. I find myself just looking at them like some film and then forgetting the lines/ideas much too quickly. Maybe it's a good idea to watch the video first then play out the main variations on a chessboard? Maybe take some notes along the way (with a pen on paper, together with the ideas) and play those out? Any other tips?

Hey, what did you expect?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Göran
Senior Member
****
Offline


ChessPublishing is great!

Posts: 454
Location: Sweden
Joined: 02/13/08
Gender: Male
Re: opening DVDs
Reply #10 - 06/16/11 at 17:25:09
Post Tools
Chessbase DVD: The ABC of Alekhine - 2nd Edition  by Andrew Martin €27.90

Quality Chess Book: Grandmaster Repertoire 4 - The English Opening vol. 2 by Mihail Marin €27.99

I guess Chessbase and Mr Martin have put as much preparation and work in the DVD as Quality Chess and Mr Marin have done in the book ?!
  

What kind of proof is that?
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10778
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: opening DVDs
Reply #9 - 06/16/11 at 16:57:54
Post Tools
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 06/16/11 at 16:01:17:
I don't doubt that DVDs make learning easier for many people than books do...........
Is it the medium itself which lends itself to such overconfidence?

Neither do I.
That's what I'm afraid of and one reason I don't own a single chess DVD.

Fromper wrote on 06/16/11 at 14:50:32:
My usual approach is.......

That's very much how I study opening books. In fact I select my books on this criterium: can I use it the way Fromper describes? Of course it happens sometimes, but if I read an opening book one time and feel that I've got out of it everything there was I feel very disappointed.
Possibly it's just me, but when I've bought a new chess book it very often happens that I want to compare new information with the book. That recent NID-game Nakamura-Ivanchuk is one example. I immediately looked up what Carsten Hansen had to say.
Looking up the line in a book seems much easier to me than looking it up on a DVD - if it's there, because DVD contain less information.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4989
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: opening DVDs
Reply #8 - 06/16/11 at 16:50:24
Post Tools
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 06/16/11 at 16:01:17:
I don't doubt that DVDs make learning easier for many people than books do. My own experience is that DVDs have far less material. They have a second problem that I think is endemic to the media, but I could be wrong:

Players who use DVDs almost exclusively are far more confident about the openings they play than players who use books.  This is sometimes a good thing, but I've often faced players who were more certain that their plan was correct (especially when it wasn't) because they saw it on a DVD.

I know, I've also faced many players, even masters, who defended their choice of move because it was "book". I'm not talking about a single move though, Players who watch DVDs seem to have more confidence in their entire method of play even when it's misguided. I don't want to give specific examples, except to mention that this seems to be especially prevalent among fans of a certain AM IM and a certain Roman character. This is not to denigrate the authors themselves, but their fans. 

Is it the medium itself which lends itself to such overconfidence?


I seem to recall Jacob Aagaard writing fairly recently that a DVD typically contains 20-40 pages' worth of material.

BTW, speaking of RD ...I recently watched a sample of a DVD of his dealing with the KID for Black (I think this DVD was recently touted in this forum).  To say that I wasn't impressed would be an understatement; for example, apparently his "complete coverage" of the significant move 8. d5 in the ...Na6 Classical lasted about two minutes.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2928
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: opening DVDs
Reply #7 - 06/16/11 at 16:12:03
Post Tools
Don't books have the same problem? I mean you cant always believe what is written either, at the end of the day you have to take a stand and come up with your own opinion of the position looking at it objectively.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
YaBB Moderator
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: opening DVDs
Reply #6 - 06/16/11 at 16:01:17
Post Tools
I don't doubt that DVDs make learning easier for many people than books do. My own experience is that DVDs have far less material. They have a second problem that I think is endemic to the media, but I could be wrong:

Players who use DVDs almost exclusively are far more confident about the openings they play than players who use books.  This is sometimes a good thing, but I've often faced players who were more certain that their plan was correct (especially when it wasn't) because they saw it on a DVD.

I know, I've also faced many players, even masters, who defended their choice of move because it was "book". I'm not talking about a single move though, Players who watch DVDs seem to have more confidence in their entire method of play even when it's misguided. I don't want to give specific examples, except to mention that this seems to be especially prevalent among fans of a certain AM IM and a certain Roman character. This is not to denigrate the authors themselves, but their fans. 

Is it the medium itself which lends itself to such overconfidence?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JEH
God Member
*****
Offline


"Football is like Chess,
only without the dice."

Posts: 1456
Location: Reading
Joined: 09/22/05
Gender: Male
Re: opening DVDs
Reply #5 - 06/16/11 at 15:48:20
Post Tools
fling wrote on 06/16/11 at 15:40:28:
Anyway, my real question is, did you play the French for many tears  Wink and then the Ziegler's DVD changed this?


I've watched his DVD twice now. I certainly hasn't put me off the French. But I've not quite been tipped back into playing it again. The Pirc is a difficult mistress  Wink
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fling
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1591
Joined: 01/21/11
Gender: Male
Re: opening DVDs
Reply #4 - 06/16/11 at 15:40:28
Post Tools
JEH wrote on 06/16/11 at 15:27:24:

I played the French for many tears, but stopped over a decade ago so watched Zielgers DVD to see if I could be tempted back. I watch these, try them out on the Internet, then try work out a repertoire I like.



I have too far many books too. I am the opposite, I read or try to read in most of them as opposed to the DVDs, which I have but I find it hard to sit down and watch them. 

Anyway, my real question is, did you play the French for many tears  Wink and then the Ziegler's DVD changed this?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo