Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C01: French Exchange from the Black side (Read 22579 times)
Smyslov_Fan
YaBB Moderator
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #14 - 06/18/11 at 20:21:31
Post Tools
I like the old rule that Black should develop his King's Knight to the opposite of what White's king's knight is developed.

In other words, if White chooses Nf3, black should play Ne7 and if white chooses Ne2, Black should play Nf6. This allows Black to play for an unbalanced position with plenty of winning chances.

I have a tremendous plus score when I get to develop Bd6, Ne7 and Bg4/f5. I usually play f6 and often castle K-side. Black's position is solidm, at least equal, and dynamic enough to have plenty of chances to win in the endgame.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BPaulsen
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love Light Squares!

Posts: 1702
Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Joined: 11/02/08
Gender: Male
Re: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #13 - 06/18/11 at 19:58:09
Post Tools
4...Nf6 just attempts to maintain symmetrical equality, and is therefore ideally suited for playing strictly for the half point barring any major mistakes by white/black.

I don't approve of 4...Bg4 due to the typical 5. h3 Bh5 6. Qe2+! line where, in my opinion, I'm not sure full equality can be expected for black.

4...Nc6 is good. I would play it if I liked the positions after 5. Bb5 better for black, so you should check those lines to make sure they appeal to you.

4...Bd6 has always been my preference since 5. c4 isn't hard to tame, and white's chosen to significantly imbalance the position at that point. If 5. Bd3 then I'll go ahead with 5...Bg4 since the Qe2+ line has been eliminated from the discussion.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
BirdBrain
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 168
Joined: 05/29/09
Re: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #12 - 06/18/11 at 18:34:59
Post Tools
That last game is in my book Complete Repertoire with 1. e4, or something like that. 

I guess a deeper question would be this - looking at the stats, after the Exchange, Nf3 seems to be the 2nd most popular line, and after that ...Nc6 is the 4th most popular line.  It looked natural enough to me.  Am I making any concessions by choosing ...Nc6?  It seems to have a healthy win percentage?  I am most interested in these deeper philosophical ideas behind the opening.  Even ...Bg4 is the 3rd most popular idea, and it would be in the realm of this type of game - working on the retreat to g6.  Just some ideas - interested in seeing what others think on here. 

* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
*

In this position, ...Nc6 or ...Bg4, philisophically speaking, or the other two more popular lines, ...Nf6 and ...Bd6, and why?  If it is important to contest Bd3, then wouldn't it be a good idea to fight for the b1-g8 diagonal as quick as possible?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
YaBB Moderator
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #11 - 06/18/11 at 17:21:13
Post Tools
And here's one of the classics of what to do when White stops Bg4:



[Event "Beersheba"]
[Site "Beersheba"]
[Date "1978.??.??"]
[Round "6"]
[White "Tatai, Stefano"]
[Black "Kortschnoj, Viktor"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C01"]
[WhiteElo "2455"]
[BlackElo "2665"]
[PlyCount "28"]
[EventDate "1978.02.??"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[EventRounds "13"]
[EventCountry "ISR"]
[EventCategory "8"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "1999.07.01"]

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. exd5 exd5 4. Bd3 c5 5. Nf3 Nc6 6. Qe2+ Be7 7. dxc5 Nf6 8.
h3 O-O 9. O-O Bxc5 10. c3 Re8 11. Qc2 Qd6 12. Nbd2 Qg3 13. Bf5 Re2 14. Nd4 Nxd4
0-1
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4655
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #10 - 06/18/11 at 16:17:33
Post Tools
Regarding ...Nc6 plus ...Bg4 versus Nf3, what is seen here is, I believe, one of the standard lines of the Exchange.

[Event "Stockholm Rilton cup"]
[Site ""]
[Date "2005.??.??"]
[Round "6"]
[White "Ong, Kezli"]
[Black "Berg, Emanuel"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteElo "2325"]
[BlackElo "2529"]
[NIC "FR 1.4.7"]
[ECO "C01"]
[PlyCount "122"]

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. exd5 exd5 4. Nf3 Bd6 5. Bd3 Nc6 6. c3 Nge7 7. O-O Bg4 8. Re1
Qd7 9. Nbd2 O-O-O 10. b4 Ng6 11. Nb3 Rde8 12. Be3 Nh4 13. Be2 Nf5 14. Bd2 Rxe2 15.
Qxe2 Nh4 16. b5 Nb4 17. Ne5 Bxe2 18. Nxd7 Nc2 19. Rxe2 Nxa1 20. Ndc5 Nxb3 21. axb3
Nf5 22. h3 b6 23. Nd3 Kd7 24. Ne5  Bxe5 25. Rxe5 Ne7 26. Kf1 a6 27. bxa6 Ra8 28.
c4 dxc4 29. bxc4 Rxa6 30. Ke2 f6 31. Rh5 h6 32. Kd3 Ra3  33. Bc3 Ra2 34. Bd2 Ra3 
35. Bc3 Ra2 36. Bd2 c6 37. g4 Ra3  38. Ke4 Ra4 39. Kd3 Ra3  40. Ke4 Ra4 41. Kd3 Ke6
42. h4 Ra3  43. Ke4 Rb3 44. Bf4 Kf7 45. d5 cxd5  46. cxd5 f5  47. gxf5 Ng8 48. Be5
Nf6  49. Bxf6 Kxf6 50. d6 Rb2 51. f4 Rd2 52. Rg5 hxg5 53. fxg5  Kf7 54. Ke5 Re2 
55. Kf4 b5 56. h5 b4 57. h6 gxh6 58. gxh6 Re8 59. Kg5 b3 60. h7 b2 61. d7 Rd8 0-1
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fling
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1583
Joined: 01/21/11
Gender: Male
Re: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #9 - 06/18/11 at 12:43:20
Post Tools
I think ...Bg4 against Nf3 looks logical. Black often plays ...Nge7 instead of ...Nf6, to be able to break a pin by ...f6, to avoid Qe2+ and to be able to play ...Bf5. As mentioned, Black would often like to exchange the white-squared bishops and therefore Bd3 is often played quite early. Allowing Black to go ...Bg4-h5-g6 seems like a sub-optimal way for White.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BirdBrain
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 168
Joined: 05/29/09
Re: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #8 - 06/18/11 at 12:11:30
Post Tools
I do agree that Be3 looks "passive" - but it isn't terrible.  As a matter of fact, I remember researching some old French lines and found that this used to be a strong weapon in the hands of Mieses - Be3.

That being said, I was wondering the general consensus on the idea of ...Nc6 and ...Bg4.  It seems fair enough for me - I found a few games on www.365chess.com with decent results.  Unless someone else has a "better" plan against Nf3 in the Exchange?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fling
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1583
Joined: 01/21/11
Gender: Male
Re: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #7 - 06/18/11 at 11:46:14
Post Tools
I agree, Be3 looks a bit passive. However, there are several games with similar lines played. See Attacking Chess: The French, e.g. Conquest-Glek, and S. Kasparov-Gurevich.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dom
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 908
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 01/11/03
Gender: Male
Re: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #6 - 06/18/11 at 08:02:39
Post Tools
One main idea in French Exchange is for Black to trade the light square bishops and for White to trade the dark square bishops.

Valid only for some lines because sometimes one side want to play vs c-doubled pawns (be: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.exd5 exd5).

In your game, White played weak moves like 5.Be3 (somewhat passive) and couple of moves (Bd3,c3) and finally you got a normal position as Black vs weird one for White, in the Kasparov line of the French Exchange : which is with an early Nc3; Qe2+ ; Be3 ; ooo plan.
« Last Edit: 06/18/11 at 10:09:53 by dom »  

“Learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.”  - Groucho Marx
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4655
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #5 - 06/18/11 at 04:55:33
Post Tools
Well, White's KB is generally his "good bishop" in the French, but this can't be taken too far; I can think of a number of "book" lines in which White is reckoned to be slightly better despite a trade of light-squared bishops.  I suspect in a venue like chess.com you might see people playing something on the order of 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 c5 4. c3 Nc6 5. Bb5 followed by Bxc6, which is horrific.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BirdBrain
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 168
Joined: 05/29/09
Re: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #4 - 06/18/11 at 00:19:30
Post Tools
I was telling my friend about this variation, and he is a friend of Kaidanov.  Kaidanov told him that the key to dismantling the White side of the French is to get rid of the light squared bishop.  So there you go - I assume there were others who already knew that?  But I thought it was nice to include it, in case there is someone else trying to learn the lines.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4655
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #3 - 06/18/11 at 00:15:03
Post Tools
White's (loosening) play reminds me of a game given in the chapter on the Exchange in Edmar Mednis's book "Practical Opening Tips."  It was a representative game from his days playing in NYC high-school events, where many of his opponents played the Exchange, but always lost.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BirdBrain
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 168
Joined: 05/29/09
Re: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #2 - 06/18/11 at 00:10:54
Post Tools
http://www.365chess.com/opening.php?m=13&n=92653&ms=e4.e6.d4.d5.exd5.exd5.Nf3.Nc...

I actually did find that my idea has been essayed a few times by strong players.  But I will look into Uhlmann, thank you very much!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bibs
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 2174
Joined: 10/24/06
Re: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #1 - 06/17/11 at 23:40:05
Post Tools
Spend some time studying GM games. Start with Uhlmann games in exchange.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BirdBrain
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 168
Joined: 05/29/09
C01: French Exchange from the Black side
06/17/11 at 23:29:55
Post Tools
I suppose if I am going to learn all the ins and outs of the French, a few pointers would be nice. 

I just won what I think was a nice game from the Black side of the French Exchange.  My idea was not common - according to chess.com, no one has tried my idea - after exd exd, Nf3 Nc6 Be3 Bg4.  I retreated my bishop to g6, and continued to put pressure on the e4 square.  I have the .pgn - any constructive criticism is appreciated.  Also, what do you think of the ...Nc6/Bg4 idea?

« Last Edit: 07/21/11 at 11:34:35 by dom »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo