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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Wedberg System (Read 28317 times)
fling
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Re: The Wedberg System
Reply #33 - 01/11/12 at 12:47:37
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 01/11/12 at 12:43:22:
you just have to know what you're doing.
Still, that applies to every opening! Wink


That is why Chesspublishing exists  Wink
Now, if I could only get this right for my next OTB games  Grin
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: The Wedberg System
Reply #32 - 01/11/12 at 12:43:22
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 01/11/12 at 12:09:13:
most of opponents actually allow the b4 pawn sac and fall apart soon after. Smiley

My game against Debray from 2010 is a fairly typical example.
Anyway, there is certainly nothing wrong with playing the Botvinnik System as Black in the Symmetrical English, it is definitely one of Black's best lines - you just have to know what you're doing.
Still, that applies to every opening! Wink
  
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fling
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Re: The Wedberg System
Reply #31 - 01/11/12 at 12:30:29
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 01/11/12 at 12:09:13:
fling wrote on 01/10/12 at 23:29:48:
Well, Marin's and Khalifman's suggestion here is to play it gambit style, with 7.a3 Nge7 8.b4. I think that Black can still play 6 ...d6, as mentioned before, if followed by 7.a3 a5, with the aim of playing ...Be6 and a quick ...d5 as soon as White plays Ne1.

Yes, of course, in the ChessPub Guide it mostly recommends answering an early a3 with ...a5.
I like playing an early a3 myself as most of my opponents actually allow the b4 pawn sac and fall apart soon after. Smiley


I haven't tried this much OTB, but in my online blitz games, almost all opponents accept that sac and I agree it is fun to play as White.

Palliser's recommendation was to only play ...a5 as a response to a3 when White also has to spend time on Rb1. This makes sense, but the problem with that was the move-order issue that was the reason I started this thread. I guess I just have to be prepared to use another line against the Marin/Khalifman suggestion.

All in all, I'd say the system is playable anyway for Black, but it there are tricky move-order issues and it still comes down to who understands the plans the best. I don't mind playing against the old main line with Bg5, ...f6, Be3, as in Andersson-Seirawan.
  
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Re: The Wedberg System
Reply #30 - 01/11/12 at 12:09:13
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fling wrote on 01/10/12 at 23:29:48:
Well, Marin's and Khalifman's suggestion here is to play it gambit style, with 7.a3 Nge7 8.b4. I think that Black can still play 6 ...d6, as mentioned before, if followed by 7.a3 a5, with the aim of playing ...Be6 and a quick ...d5 as soon as White plays Ne1.

Yes, of course, in the ChessPub Guide it mostly recommends answering an early a3 with ...a5.
I like playing an early a3 myself as most of my opponents actually allow the b4 pawn sac and fall apart soon after. Smiley
  
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fling
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Re: The Wedberg System
Reply #29 - 01/10/12 at 23:29:48
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 01/09/12 at 23:16:23:
In the ChessPub Guide it says that: [quote]6...d6 may be the most accurate,


Well, Marin's and Khalifman's suggestion here is to play it gambit style, with 7.a3 Nge7 8.b4. I think that Black can still play 6 ...d6, as mentioned before, if followed by 7.a3 a5, with the aim of playing ...Be6 and a quick ...d5 as soon as White plays Ne1.
  
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fling
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Re: The Wedberg System
Reply #28 - 01/10/12 at 09:55:02
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 01/09/12 at 23:16:23:
fling wrote on 06/18/11 at 11:07:56:
Looking at the Wedberg system, with 1. c4 c5 2. g3 Nc6 3. Bg2 g6 4. Nc3 Bg7 5. Nf3 e5, after 6. 0-0 Nge7 7. a3 0-0 8. Rb1 a5, 9. Ne1! by Marin is not mentioned in any other sources I have seen so far.

In the ChessPub Guide it says that: Quote:
6...d6 may be the most accurate, 7. Ne1 Be6
etc., forcing d3, and this is a common move order nuance in these Botvinnik positions for both colours.
However, White also has a trick, 6. d3 to play Nd2-f1-e3! Smiley


I have to admit, I still haven't checked my best source, Chesspub  Shocked

But that trick I have seen, even without castling. IIRC, Lars Karlsson likes that plan.
  
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Re: The Wedberg System
Reply #27 - 01/10/12 at 03:30:37
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Markovich wrote on 01/10/12 at 02:43:30:
Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 01/10/12 at 01:16:08:
In another threat today I was inquiring with regards to this line and the Symmetrical in general, then what is the other line for Black to play, and how is its theoretical stance currently?


Ask this I another thread, not this one. See the title?


I do see the title. Except, my inquiry concerns this system since I want to know what would convince someone who plays the Wedberg to stop playing it and choose this other line.
  
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Re: The Wedberg System
Reply #26 - 01/10/12 at 02:43:30
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 01/10/12 at 01:16:08:
In another threat today I was inquiring with regards to this line and the Symmetrical in general, then what is the other line for Black to play, and how is its theoretical stance currently?


Ask this I another thread, not this one. See the title?
  
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Re: The Wedberg System
Reply #25 - 01/10/12 at 01:16:08
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In another threat today I was inquiring with regards to this line and the Symmetrical in general, then what is the other line for Black to play, and how is its theoretical stance currently?
  
Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: The Wedberg System
Reply #24 - 01/09/12 at 23:16:23
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fling wrote on 06/18/11 at 11:07:56:
Looking at the Wedberg system, with 1. c4 c5 2. g3 Nc6 3. Bg2 g6 4. Nc3 Bg7 5. Nf3 e5, after 6. 0-0 Nge7 7. a3 0-0 8. Rb1 a5, 9. Ne1! by Marin is not mentioned in any other sources I have seen so far.

In the ChessPub Guide it says that: Quote:
6...d6 may be the most accurate, 7. Ne1 Be6
etc., forcing d3, and this is a common move order nuance in these Botvinnik positions for both colours.
However, White also has a trick, 6. d3 to play Nd2-f1-e3! Smiley
  
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Re: The Wedberg System
Reply #23 - 10/19/11 at 21:16:56
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BabySnake wrote on 10/19/11 at 15:09:25:
I am not sure if fling and Markovich are referring to 11...Nd4 or 10...Nd4.

If it's 11...Nd4 then what is white's eleventh move?

Edit: I was referring to the analysis in post #14. I see now, it must be 11.Ne3. Certainly interesting.


Yeah, sorry, I see now that I missed White's 11th, Ne3. I can't edit that post now, I don't see any modify option.
  
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Re: The Wedberg System
Reply #22 - 10/19/11 at 15:09:25
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I am not sure if fling and Markovich are referring to 11...Nd4 or 10...Nd4.

If it's 11...Nd4 then what is white's eleventh move?

Edit: I was referring to the analysis in post #14. I see now, it must be 11.Ne3. Certainly interesting.
  
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Re: The Wedberg System
Reply #21 - 09/27/11 at 11:20:46
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Another thing about that 11...Nd4 idea is that White can play 12.b4 and look to win the pawn under more favorable circumstances.
  
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Re: The Wedberg System
Reply #20 - 09/27/11 at 09:53:53
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BPaulsen wrote on 09/27/11 at 08:58:22:
It's obviously sound, black's not losing by force or suffering a significant disadvantage. The advantage white usually gets is small, while black's position remains fully playable. This usually means the "correct" final result is a draw.

Both sides can be relatively content.


I was a bit unhappy with the variations given by Marin and Khalifman, but after spending more time on them, I agree that White doesn't have too much of an advantage. As mentioned before (I think it was Bpaulsen, maybe in another thread?), this might not be the best system to choose when playing for a win as Black. But it all depends on your preferences I guess. Anyway, there are quite a few ways to unbalance the game anyway, even though both ...b5 and ...d5 is stopped temporarily for Black.
  
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Re: The Wedberg System
Reply #19 - 09/27/11 at 08:58:22
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It's obviously sound, black's not losing by force or suffering a significant disadvantage. The advantage white usually gets is small, while black's position remains fully playable. This usually means the "correct" final result is a draw.

Both sides can be relatively content.
  
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