Latest Updates:
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Saemisch: 6...e5 7.d5 Nh5 queen sac (Read 16703 times)
AntonioAg
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I love hotchicks.com!

Posts: 35
Location: Mexico
Joined: 09/29/16
Gender: Male
Re: Saemisch: 6...e5 7.d5 Nh5 queen sac
Reply #15 - 10/03/16 at 17:43:26
Post Tools
And like I said, I didnt find a single game in the ICCF 2014 database, can someone link me to correspondence chess in which the Bronstein sac was played?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MartinC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2028
Joined: 07/24/06
Re: Saemisch: 6...e5 7.d5 Nh5 queen sac
Reply #14 - 10/03/16 at 09:58:23
Post Tools
Like he says, if its being played in high level correspondence chess then it definitely isn't genuinely busted. Absolutely nowhere to hide there these days.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
AntonioAg
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I love hotchicks.com!

Posts: 35
Location: Mexico
Joined: 09/29/16
Gender: Male
Re: Saemisch: 6...e5 7.d5 Nh5 queen sac
Reply #13 - 10/03/16 at 02:32:23
Post Tools
Thanks for the link, for anyone interested it starts on minute 50:41.
However I wonder what correspondence games does he have? I downloaded ICCF´s 2014 archive and didnt find a single game with it.
I do agree with him that White is better or at least has a fun time with h4-h5, but I am not sure about wether white is completely wining or not.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
proustiskeen
God Member
*****
Offline


Hello from Omaha!

Posts: 670
Joined: 08/11/08
Re: Saemisch: 6...e5 7.d5 Nh5 queen sac
Reply #12 - 10/02/16 at 20:15:41
Post Tools
John Watson talked about this variation on his ICC show on 9/20.

https://youtu.be/_JM2DVDmkZg
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
AntonioAg
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I love hotchicks.com!

Posts: 35
Location: Mexico
Joined: 09/29/16
Gender: Male
Re: Saemisch: 6...e5 7.d5 Nh5 queen sac
Reply #11 - 10/02/16 at 19:52:45
Post Tools
But what about 12...Bh6!?, not a lot of games in the databases and in all of them Black went for a busted line with Nb4.
Does any book/article/magazine cover the 12...Bh6 lines?



Not many has been covered on this line and as I said before all of the games essay 14.Nb4 which is refuted.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ErictheRed
God Member
*****
Offline


USCF National Master

Posts: 2521
Location: USA
Joined: 10/02/05
Re: Saemisch: 6...e5 7.d5 Nh5 queen sac
Reply #10 - 02/27/14 at 15:29:06
Post Tools
Anything in CBM 155 that is substantially different from Schipkov's 2006 CD, where he thought that both 12.Qf2! Nc4 13.h4 and 13.Qe2 Nb6 14.h4 lead to "plus over minus"?  He basically gives Razuvaev, Y - Shchekachev, A, 1996 (plus accompanying lines) as best play if you read between the lines.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
LeeRoth
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 1520
Joined: 10/22/05
Re: Saemisch: 6...e5 7.d5 Nh5 queen sac
Reply #9 - 02/27/14 at 04:14:26
Post Tools
BladezII wrote on 02/27/14 at 03:53:36:
LeeRoth wrote on 08/11/13 at 17:31:50:
Boris Schipkov looks at this line in the latest issue of CBM and confirms that 12.Qf2 is best.  After 12...Nxc4, he notes that White achieves a small edge with 13.Nb5, but that the better plan is h4!, either directly with 13.h4 or with first inserting 13.Qe2 Nb6 and then 14.h4.  Its the same basic idea as before.  If Black reacts to h4 with ..h5, the ..f7-f5 advance becomes more difficult to play.  And if Black doesn't play ..h5, White can then attack with h4-h5.



What CBM is that?  the number, please, if you so kind.


155
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BladezII
Senior Member
****
Offline


Member of chesspublishing
.com and STC Club

Posts: 402
Joined: 11/01/04
Re: Saemisch: 6...e5 7.d5 Nh5 queen sac
Reply #8 - 02/27/14 at 03:53:36
Post Tools
LeeRoth wrote on 08/11/13 at 17:31:50:
Boris Schipkov looks at this line in the latest issue of CBM and confirms that 12.Qf2 is best.  After 12...Nxc4, he notes that White achieves a small edge with 13.Nb5, but that the better plan is h4!, either directly with 13.h4 or with first inserting 13.Qe2 Nb6 and then 14.h4.  Its the same basic idea as before.  If Black reacts to h4 with ..h5, the ..f7-f5 advance becomes more difficult to play.  And if Black doesn't play ..h5, White can then attack with h4-h5.



What CBM is that?  the number, please, if you so kind.
  

I am a participating member of chesspublishing.com since 1998.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
LeeRoth
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 1520
Joined: 10/22/05
Re: Saemisch: 6...e5 7.d5 Nh5 queen sac
Reply #7 - 08/11/13 at 17:31:50
Post Tools
Boris Schipkov looks at this line in the latest issue of CBM and confirms that 12.Qf2 is best.  After 12...Nxc4, he notes that White achieves a small edge with 13.Nb5, but that the better plan is h4!, either directly with 13.h4 or with first inserting 13.Qe2 Nb6 and then 14.h4.  Its the same basic idea as before.  If Black reacts to h4 with ..h5, the ..f7-f5 advance becomes more difficult to play.  And if Black doesn't play ..h5, White can then attack with h4-h5.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paul Cumbers
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 173
Location: Grantham
Joined: 01/04/03
Gender: Male
Re: Saemisch: 6...e5 7.d5 Nh5 queen sac
Reply #6 - 06/28/11 at 19:04:56
Post Tools
LeeRoth wrote on 06/25/11 at 16:17:09:
There is nothing wrong with 9.Kd1, its just that 9.g3 is better.   

After 11..Ne3, I used to play 12.Ke2 a la Karpov, but it turns out that the White Queen doesn't do all that much on h4 and White is better off playing h2-h4 to dissuade Blacks f7-f5 break.  So the preferred move these days is 12.Qf2!  with the idea of 12..Nxc4 13.Nb5 Na6 14.Qe2 Nb6 15.h4 h5 16.Rc1 and White is better.

Thanks for this Smiley... Looks like the analysis on ChessPublishing.com is slightly out of date... Maybe it's time to give the Saemisch a try... Shocked
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
LeeRoth
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 1520
Joined: 10/22/05
Re: Saemisch: 6...e5 7.d5 Nh5 queen sac
Reply #5 - 06/25/11 at 16:17:09
Post Tools
Paul Cumbers wrote on 06/22/11 at 09:35:25:
I'm new to the King's Indian Saemisch, and one line I wouldn't look forward to as White is:

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.f3 0–0 6.Be3 e5 7.d5 Nh5 8.Qd2 Qh4+ 9.g3 Nxg3!? 10.Qf2 Nxf1 11.Qxh4 Nxe3

Black seems to have good compensation for the queen. So I'm wondering if White can avoid the issue by playing 9.Kd1!?, and "castle by hand". OK so it loses time, but Black also loses time with his queen, e.g.:

Ward v McNab, 1993
9...Qe7 10.Kc2 f5 11.Rc1 a5 12.Kb1 Na6 13.Bd3 Bd7 14.exf5 gxf5 15.Nh3 e4 16.Be2 a4 17.f4 Nf6 18.Nf2 Nc5 19.h3 Ra6 20.g4 with good kingside prospects which White converted nicely.

To my untrained eye, 9.Kd1 looks promising, but there's no mention of this move on ChessPublishing... Undecided


There is nothing wrong with 9.Kd1, its just that 9.g3 is better.   

After 11..Ne3, I used to play 12.Ke2 a la Karpov, but it turns out that the White Queen doesn't do all that much on h4 and White is better off playing h2-h4 to dissuade Blacks f7-f5 break.  So the preferred move these days is 12.Qf2!  with the idea of 12..Nxc4 13.Nb5 Na6 14.Qe2 Nb6 15.h4 h5 16.Rc1 and White is better.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
chesswise
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 44
Joined: 05/07/11
Re: Saemisch: 6...e5 7.d5 Nh5 queen sac
Reply #4 - 06/24/11 at 13:11:12
Post Tools
9.Kd1 Qe7 and now 10.g4 looks natural given opposite side castling (albeit artificial for white) and the fact that white queen and bishop looks poised for kingside action. Also consider black has lost a lot of time for no apparent reason (the white king is hardly weaker on d1).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4725
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: Saemisch: 6...e5 7.d5 Nh5 queen sac
Reply #3 - 06/22/11 at 16:14:13
Post Tools
Paul Cumbers wrote on 06/22/11 at 15:51:08:
But as long as White avoids the famous Karpov-Kasparov 1993 game, 7.Nge2 can't be too bad.


Indeed.  I think it should even win for White according to Hans Berliner.  (Typically, he stopped after not many moves of a main line thought by sources like ECO to lead to equality and proclaimed that White has an excellent position, or some such.)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paul Cumbers
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 173
Location: Grantham
Joined: 01/04/03
Gender: Male
Re: Saemisch: 6...e5 7.d5 Nh5 queen sac
Reply #2 - 06/22/11 at 15:51:08
Post Tools
MNb wrote on 06/22/11 at 10:15:04:
White has done very well in practice with 9.Kd1. In that Ward-McNab game my database suggests several improvements for Black though. 16...c6 to open the c-file looks like a very logical one.
I don't like this variation for White. With 2.c4, 5.f3 and 7.d5 his/her play is very slow. So I prefer 7.Nge2.

Interesting... I hadn't really considered 7.Nge2 (perhaps I read too much into Andrew Martin's commentary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54DNJ5saIC0 at 1:47, where he suggests that Nge2 should only be played in conjunction with Bg5). But as long as White avoids the famous Karpov-Kasparov 1993 game, 7.Nge2 can't be too bad.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10669
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Saemisch: 6...e5 7.d5 Nh5 queen sac
Reply #1 - 06/22/11 at 10:15:04
Post Tools
White has done very well in practice with 9.Kd1. In that Ward-McNab game my database suggests several improvements for Black though. 16...c6 to open the c-file looks like a very logical one.
I don't like this variation for White. With 2.c4, 5.f3 and 7.d5 his/her play is very slow. So I prefer 7.Nge2.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paul Cumbers
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 173
Location: Grantham
Joined: 01/04/03
Gender: Male
Saemisch: 6...e5 7.d5 Nh5 queen sac
06/22/11 at 09:35:25
Post Tools
I'm new to the King's Indian Saemisch, and one line I wouldn't look forward to as White is:

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.f3 0–0 6.Be3 e5 7.d5 Nh5 8.Qd2 Qh4+ 9.g3 Nxg3!? 10.Qf2 Nxf1 11.Qxh4 Nxe3

Black seems to have good compensation for the queen. So I'm wondering if White can avoid the issue by playing 9.Kd1!?, and "castle by hand". OK so it loses time, but Black also loses time with his queen, e.g.:

Ward v McNab, 1993
9...Qe7 10.Kc2 f5 11.Rc1 a5 12.Kb1 Na6 13.Bd3 Bd7 14.exf5 gxf5 15.Nh3 e4 16.Be2 a4 17.f4 Nf6 18.Nf2 Nc5 19.h3 Ra6 20.g4 with good kingside prospects which White converted nicely.

To my untrained eye, 9.Kd1 looks promising, but there's no mention of this move on ChessPublishing... Undecided
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo