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The Forum should be restricted to CP subscribers    
  9 (8.7%)
CP subscribers should have free access    
  20 (19.4%)
The Forum should be free to all, but with Adverts    
  10 (9.7%)
CP subscribers should see an ad-free version    
  16 (15.5%)
Everyone should pay a subscription to be a member    
  1 (1.0%)
Everyone pays but CP subscribers should pay less    
  1 (1.0%)
I want to see more quality posts by IM/GMs    
  22 (21.4%)
The Forum is fine as it is    
  24 (23.3%)




Total votes: 103
« Last Modified by: GMTonyKosten on: 07/20/11 at 11:00:35 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) ChessPub Forum – the way forward. (Read 30677 times)
GMTonyKosten
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #16 - 06/26/11 at 08:40:47
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Daniel wrote on 06/25/11 at 23:40:23:
I think the annoyance of ads really depends where you place the ads.  An ad on top or on the side is not terrible as long as it isn't some horrible video that pops up when you move the cursor over it.

If we use Google then you have no control over which Ads appear, it will vary according to the page content and the whereabouts of whoever is looking at the page.
  
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Daniel
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #15 - 06/25/11 at 23:40:23
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Paying to write in a specific thread does not sound like a good idea.  Maybe paying a one time fee to register an account would be ok but the message boards I know that do this are huge, have lots of trolls, and generate income by banning them and having them reregister.  We don't appear to be big enough or have persistent enough trolls to do this.  The idea of having to have membership in the mainsite to join the ChessPub or else pay a small fee might not be too bad though.

I think the annoyance of ads really depends where you place the ads.  An ad on top or on the side is not terrible as long as it isn't some horrible video that pops up when you move the cursor over it.

This assumes that most members would rather have a couple ads than pay an extra few dollars a month when they already pay a hundred a year for access to the main site.  Maybe for those that detest ads there could be an ad free version that costs a few dollars a month to make up for the ad revenue.  A website I frequent (www.shoryuken.com) has done this for quite a while but recently got video ads (these aren't too bad as they don't play automatically) and a mediabar that is horrible annoying, takes up a good portion of the screen, and occasionally has random people singing when you move the cursor over it to get to the taskbar.
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #14 - 06/25/11 at 20:13:59
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 06/25/11 at 13:51:16:
fling wrote on 06/25/11 at 12:01:05:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 06/25/11 at 10:25:24:
If sectionistas were visiting their "own" forum sections, it could improve connection and climate.

I think this is a thing that would be worth paying for, but not sure if all sectionistas will manage to do this. There are probably some reasons for them not doing this now. [...]

A possible explanation: osmosis. To get more paying members, a high concentration of Elo (salt) is kept in the main/pay area. Lower rated members can reach them only through the pay-wall (cell membrane). Regular visits of sectionistas in the Forum would ruin the osmosis. - When the Forum becomes pay area, it might change things.


Quite a lot of them keep a check on the lines discussed here, but I assume that most don't bother to post here as they simply don't have the time, it's amazing how much chessplayers have to work to make money these days, I'm always receiving emails saying that they have to finish a book by the end of the month, edit another one this week, while playing the Japanese league and a GM tournament somewhere else, Roll Eyes etc. By offering them a stipend it would make it worth their while.
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #13 - 06/25/11 at 20:07:53
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 06/25/11 at 10:25:24:
The professional presentation with GM experts behind it, and a clear layout is important. I'd guess that the average member is a bit older (many are even interested in chess books!) and unhappy with optical chaos. Therefore I'd be cautious with adding many ads.


I guess I must also be older as I find 'optical chaos' very unpleasant, Embarrassed I really hate all those flashing Ads you get on lots of sites these days.

Stefan Buecker wrote on 06/25/11 at 10:25:24:
Member fees - what amounts are we speaking about? One Euro per month? Two?


I was thinking something trivial like this, yes.

Stefan Buecker wrote on 06/25/11 at 10:25:24:
Can you instead take 5 Euro for starting a new thread? (Two advantages: it would reduce the sprawl of beginner threads, and we would be sure that the OP has a serious interest in an answer.)


It's an interesting idea, but I imagine it will just lead to people high jacking related threads! Shocked

Stefan Buecker wrote on 06/25/11 at 10:25:24:
Would it be possible to get more in return for the increased revenue? ... If sectionistas were visiting their "own" forum sections, it could improve connection and climate.


Yes, this would be the main point of making some money, I could 'force' sectionistas to post by dangling a carrot in front of them!
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #12 - 06/25/11 at 16:26:32
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Are there other ways to make revenue streams?

1) What other chess forum sites do you have a precedence for membership fees (this oughta help figure out the best route!).

2) Isn't continuing to subdivide the forum really just a way to continue to push the problem of organizing it better off into the future.

Something I think would be good if you go the route of making some kind of fee to participate in the forum would be a trial membership (3 months free to the forum and maybe one sample free dl of a subscription section). It would keep the in flow of new members to see if they find the value in their money before they contribute rather than being straight away turned off by the fee. The question I guess I have is if you went fee based does this mean the entire forum would not be seen by guests or that they just could not post (if the latter then the fee is silly).

Maybe an opening of the month thread should be started? Each month a different opening is selected. To participate in the thread there should be a smallish fee lets say $5 and the prize could be either a year's subscription for free or $100 or some kind of lesson etc. The best posts would be summarized in the next month's subscription update that would reveal the winner. It might bring in some additional revenue.

I have to imagine there is more ways like this idea to get nontraditional revenue streams than just 'subscribe or advertise!'  Wink

You could always try to get an additional tool section added to the forum such as 'recent games in tournament x,y,z, which usually ended up with their own thread anyhow. Only now, it would be an efficient tool that a person could purchase for a smallish sum (say .99cents). There all sorts of ways to innovate!

Somehow, the better threads end up longish and far too hard to follow if you weren't there when they began. Perhaps there should be some kind of system whereby a pgn is created of that thread and each person can be .50 cents for the convenience of getting the pgn over sifting through the thread endlessly.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #11 - 06/25/11 at 13:51:16
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fling wrote on 06/25/11 at 12:01:05:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 06/25/11 at 10:25:24:
If sectionistas were visiting their "own" forum sections, it could improve connection and climate.

I think this is a thing that would be worth paying for, but not sure if all sectionistas will manage to do this. There are probably some reasons for them not doing this now. [...]

A possible explanation: osmosis. To get more paying members, a high concentration of Elo (salt) is kept in the main/pay area. Lower rated members can reach them only through the pay-wall (cell membrane). Regular visits of sectionistas in the Forum would ruin the osmosis. - When the Forum becomes pay area, it might change things.
  
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fling
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #10 - 06/25/11 at 12:01:05
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 06/25/11 at 10:25:24:
If sectionistas were visiting their "own" forum sections, it could improve connection and climate.


I think this is a thing that would be worth paying for, but not sure if all sectionistas will manage to do this. There are probably some reasons for them not doing this now. One is that they might have to keep some novelties for their games rather than a forum. Also, since the updates aren't really always on time, I suspect some don't have much time/too low priority to even go in here and answer posts.
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #9 - 06/25/11 at 10:25:24
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The professional presentation with GM experts behind it, and a clear layout is important. I'd guess that the average member is a bit older (many are even interested in chess books!) and unhappy with optical chaos. Therefore I'd be cautious with adding many ads.

Member fees - what amounts are we speaking about? One Euro per month? Two? Can you instead take 5 Euro for starting a new thread? (Two advantages: it would reduce the sprawl of beginner threads, and we would be sure that the OP has a serious interest in an answer.)

Would it be possible to get more in return for the increased revenue? E.g. members might play a game, moves decided by poll, vs John Watson. If the members win, they'd get a free month. If sectionistas were visiting their "own" forum sections, it could improve connection and climate.
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #8 - 06/25/11 at 09:04:49
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BPaulsen wrote on 06/24/11 at 13:05:17:
Free: individuals have to deal with ads everywhere.

Paying: no ads to deal with.

Yes, interesting, I wonder how they do that?
Obviously I am not a contributor to their site so I get an entire screen full of Adverts, even 3 of their first 5 boards seem to be Ads! Huh
Well, I suppose it is a possiblity.
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #7 - 06/24/11 at 13:08:06
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BPaulsen wrote on 06/24/11 at 13:05:17:
One of the message boards I frequent has two options:

I just posted that I didn't think this would be possible when your post popped up! Could you PM the link to me please so I can have a look?
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #6 - 06/24/11 at 13:05:17
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One of the message boards I frequent has two options:

Free: individuals have to deal with ads everywhere.

Paying: no ads to deal with.

That might be a viable option.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #5 - 06/24/11 at 08:55:06
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 06/23/11 at 22:10:12:
I am beginning to think that we might need to increase the number of sections, mostly by further sub-dividing the current ones.

The beta version of the site software features 'sub-boards' which would make this much easier to navigate, see http://www.yabbforum.com/community/.
Of course, this assumes they ever get around to finishing version 3! Sad
  
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dfan
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #4 - 06/24/11 at 01:19:07
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To be honest, I would hope that a ChessPublishing membership would provide free access to the forums, especially since most of the valuable forum content is provided by forum members themselves.

Advertising seems like the most reasonable solution to me (and perhaps ChessPublishing members get an ad-free version).
  
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Daniel
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #3 - 06/24/11 at 01:14:58
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I don't think a subscription-based model separate from ChessPublishing would be ideal.  Maybe include ChessPub access in ChessPublishing Gold membership.  All of this would mean a potential loss of useful posts though from people turned off by having to pay if they find the ChessPub forum through Google or word of mouth.

A few advertisements would not be terrible.  Just no intrusive flash, video popups, or media bars.  If advertisers complain about their products getting trashed then they should just have to deal with it or advertise better products.  Perhaps ChessPublishing subscribers/Gold members could get an ad-free version.

  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #2 - 06/23/11 at 22:10:51
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One obvious deduction from all this is that the Forum will have to generate some money. Huh
There are two alternatives: advertising or subscriptions.
Of the two I would definitely prefer the 2nd as I find adverts on Forums (and sites in general) very obtrusive, in addition advertisers tend to like sympathetic treatment which might be liable to compromise the Forum's objectivity.
I have already received suggestions from some members to make the Forum paying (much like certain other successful Forums), and if we decide to take this route there remains the question: how much?
I think a smallish sum would be best, as this should certainly be sufficient to dissuade trolls, time-wasters and spammers, without chasing away serious contributors, while at the same time providing enough money to run the site.
I suppose Moderators would have free memberships, and ChessPublishing.com subscribers (or perhaps Gold Plus members) would pay less.
  
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