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The Forum should be restricted to CP subscribers    
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CP subscribers should have free access    
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The Forum should be free to all, but with Adverts    
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CP subscribers should see an ad-free version    
  16 (15.5%)
Everyone should pay a subscription to be a member    
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Everyone pays but CP subscribers should pay less    
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I want to see more quality posts by IM/GMs    
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The Forum is fine as it is    
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Total votes: 103
« Last Modified by: GMTonyKosten on: 07/20/11 at 11:00:35 »
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) ChessPub Forum – the way forward. (Read 29761 times)
GMTonyKosten
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #76 - 07/06/12 at 09:45:09
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TalJechin wrote on 07/05/12 at 09:44:07:
The "downside" is that managing the forum may become a full time job. Something you may not be interested in I suppose, given that you're already restricting new members to the forum...  Undecided

No, you're right, the Forum takes up a lot less of my time since I made it more difficult to register, and that suits me fine. Smiley
  
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TalJechin
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #75 - 07/05/12 at 09:44:07
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Given that the chesspub visitors are likely to be males between say 15-50 - it could be a useful place for ads on beer, cars, deodorants Smiley etc. But then they would want to place video clips or interactive things and not only banners.

One solution could be to have a special section only for adverts - people get bored here too, so most of us would take a look and it would be indexed by google so the section would get hits from the outside too.

And while you're at it, why not add another section just for chess related ads? Could be anything from publishers of books, dvds etc to trainers looking for students, teams wanting to recruit new players, players selling off 2nd hand books, dvds etc.

If it's possible, even just a sub-site for selling off chess stuff, with the possibility for auctions could be quite interesting and then you could simply charge a few % from the sales made. The traffic on this site should at least make it worth a try. (something like www . ChessLund . com should definitely be possible, but with a much wider range of chess materials instead of just antique books.)


In short, regardless of the times there are always opportunities to be found or invented, but you must act to make them real. Keeping the site exactly as it is and expect pennies from heaven is not gonna happen. The "downside" is that managing the forum may become a full time job. Something you may not be interested in I suppose, given that you're already restricting new members to the forum...  Undecided
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #74 - 07/04/12 at 21:23:00
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 07/04/12 at 13:11:48:
Hadron wrote on 07/03/12 at 22:51:03:
why not link in to the forum third person website where professional chess players can offer services to the membership....You could charge for the link?
- Surely there must be some chess related business or service out there in on the internet ocean and in the real world, you could advertise unobtusively for ?....(and by unobtusively, I mean perhaps having the log-in process to the forum on a seperate page and have all money making advertisements there

There doesn't seem to be that much money in online advertising at the moment, we used to get lots of proposals for the main site (but not the Forum), but that has dried up in the last couple of years.
I have added Google ads to one of the other sites (improveyourchess.com) to see whether that generates much in the way of income, but it seems to be a waste of time.
Also, I have a natural aversion to these popup ads that are so annoying on other sites.

I don't think there is much money around period given how the world economy is at the moment which is another reason I would prefer the forum to stay as it is. Once you start adding extra charges, people will start thing seriously if they can afford it not matter how small you might make it
Hadron
  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #73 - 07/04/12 at 13:11:48
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Hadron wrote on 07/03/12 at 22:51:03:
why not link in to the forum third person website where professional chess players can offer services to the membership....You could charge for the link?
- Surely there must be some chess related business or service out there in on the internet ocean and in the real world, you could advertise unobtusively for ?....(and by unobtusively, I mean perhaps having the log-in process to the forum on a seperate page and have all money making advertisements there

There doesn't seem to be that much money in online advertising at the moment, we used to get lots of proposals for the main site (but not the Forum), but that has dried up in the last couple of years.
I have added Google ads to one of the other sites (improveyourchess.com) to see whether that generates much in the way of income, but it seems to be a waste of time.
Also, I have a natural aversion to these popup ads that are so annoying on other sites.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #72 - 07/03/12 at 22:51:03
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I was, at that time a year ago, a free member of the forum and left. I felt that it was now worth spending some cash with the chesspublishing.com site because not only of the theory available from the site but because of possible access to the forum. Personally I would like to see the forum stay as it is and as for moving forward, there must be a way of generating revenue without overly limiting access to members, potential or otherise, while in the search of funds....I dunno maybe...
- Chesspublishing.com and the forum itself surely must have a significant membership person, why not link in to the forum third person website where professional chess players can offer services to the membership....You could charge for the link?
- Surely there must be some chess related business or service out there in on the internet ocean and in the real world, you could advertise unobtusively for ?....(and by unobtusively, I mean perhaps having the log-in process to the forum on a seperate page and have all money making advertisements there)
Hadron

  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #71 - 06/26/12 at 13:06:50
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[quote author=4E4D4741200 link=1308866964/70#70 date=1340702263]A quite graceless comment from Anonymous3. John Watson may not post on the Forum, but he engages helpfully and conscientiously with ChessPubbers' questions in his updates. Surely it's possible to discuss the issue of whether ChessPub writers should contribute to the Forum without needlessly impugning anyone.[/quote]

Agree, the usual nonsense from A3. That someone could go out of his way to not be somewhere is a peculiar claim.

I have never been to San Jose, nor I have been to Turkmenistan. Doesn't mean I have been avidly avoiding doing so. Just...haven't.

A3 - try to be positive. Save the cowardly anonymous attacks for Youtube comments of bands you don't like. Or something.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #70 - 06/26/12 at 09:17:43
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A quite graceless comment from Anonymous3. John Watson may not post on the Forum, but he engages helpfully and conscientiously with ChessPubbers' questions in his updates. Surely it's possible to discuss the issue of whether ChessPub writers should contribute to the Forum without needlessly impugning anyone.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #69 - 06/26/12 at 09:05:06
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Anonymous3 wrote on 06/25/12 at 20:54:15:
Also, I like titled players like IM John Cox who post on the forum but what really bugs me is that people like IM John Watson seem to go out of there way to not post on the forum.

I guess one either enjoys giving one's opinion on a Forum, and seeing other peoples' opinions, or one doesn't.
John Watson is a busy guy who has to work very hard to make a decent living from chess, and has no real incentive to post here.
Eric Prié posted here quite a lot at one stage, but I remember he was chased off by an agressive Forum member!
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #68 - 06/25/12 at 20:54:15
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Did you really think many people were going to vote for the pay options?

Also, I like titled players like IM John Cox who post on the forum but what really bugs me is that people like IM John Watson seem to go out of there way to not post on the forum.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #67 - 10/15/11 at 11:32:04
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Coffee mug for the staff room would be ideal.
Perhaps chesspub boxer shorts for special occasions.

Chess tshirt. Would prefer to walk around with 'tw@t' tattooed on my forehead.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #66 - 10/14/11 at 14:42:14
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Jesse, the Chesspub already does have a team participating in the ICCF!

Personally, I wouldn't be interested in a t-shirt, but a chesspub beer mug would be an amusing addition, especially if it's classy (like, say a Bass glass,  one of those iconic Guinness glasses or even a Stella Artois glass, not like one of the ceramic Bavarian beer steins that are ubiquitous in the homes of American GIs who were stationed in Germany in the 60s and 70s).
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #65 - 10/14/11 at 09:43:53
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Zatox wrote on 08/11/09 at 12:05:23:
Indeed, But I would love a chesspublishing mug or something.


I'd buy a (coffee) mug and a shirt (100% cotton and decent quality - would wear it to tournaments), and a tournament pen - surely it'd be a winner! Must be simple to have this stuff made - send someone a logo and that's it. There's a guy on my local team who makes this sort of stuff for our chess club and tournaments. Users who want to 'support chesspub' probably more likely to do so as a side effect of 'endorsing' chesspub.

aside: how bout putting together a chesspub.com team to play in, for example, the team event at Pardubice?
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #64 - 10/10/11 at 11:59:09
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That's funny, I first read that as "pizzas." Now that would be something.
  

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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #63 - 10/09/11 at 23:40:58
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Hello Tony, as you and I have talked. I would be willing to offer membership prizes in my freestyle and corr chess tournaments. If that can help you guys out.

This can go in line with the best game voting request I made to you.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #62 - 10/09/11 at 23:18:58
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This has gone very silent!

Zatox wrote on 08/11/09 at 12:05:23:
Indeed, But I would love a chesspublishing mug or something.

Now, that's an idea! Would a ChessPub beer glass be more appropriate though? Roll Eyes
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #61 - 08/26/11 at 10:19:42
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Jesse Gersenson wrote on 08/24/11 at 05:50:49:
I'd say that's a very risky move which doesn't improve your position much. You'd lose users - those who don't want change, don't want to relearn a new interface - especially so as they felt like experts on the old interface, etc.

Yes, that's almost certainly true, if we changed the new software would have to look and work almost exactly like the old one.
Still, 'nothing ventured nothing gained'?!
  
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Jesse Gersenson
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #60 - 08/24/11 at 05:50:49
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 08/10/11 at 10:13:22:
Of course, any such move would cause a great deal of upheaval, but would the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? Undecided


I'd say that's a very risky move which doesn't improve your position much. You'd lose users - those who don't want change, don't want to relearn a new interface - especially so as they felt like experts on the old interface, etc.

Here's an example, yesterday at 8 pm I moved the download links on the komodochess.com site from the bottom of the homepage, to their own page. There's a huge button on the homepage which says 'Download' - i figured everyone could see it.

A few hours latter someone posts this online, "The site seems to be missing all the engines.  Is there an alternate download link for the engines?" Twenty minuets goes by and the same person writes, "oh nevermind.  All the engines/opening book were moved to a seperate page."

All forum packages have features missing. Adding tags and sub forums is a bad exchange for learnt usability.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #59 - 08/10/11 at 10:13:22
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I was thinking that we might have to consider changing the Forum software sometime soon.
Why? To add functions like tags and sub-boards, and to change from the current flat file system.
Currently YaBB development seems to have come to a standstill, their version 3 (which would have most things we need) is stuck in Beta. Sad
Of course, any such move would cause a great deal of upheaval, but would the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? Undecided
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #58 - 08/10/11 at 10:01:16
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dom wrote on 08/03/11 at 21:05:42:
@Tony: job done (SF,MNb method: adding ECO code beginning of subject first post threads) for French forum..now tired  Tongue ...i will hibernate for some months  Cool

Great! Many thanks!! Smiley
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #57 - 08/03/11 at 21:05:42
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 07/16/11 at 23:25:02:
dom wrote on 07/16/11 at 21:00:06:
- where (in thread) and how to add the ECO tag ?

Good question! I think it would have to be at the end of the title in the very first post for each thread (unless anyone has any better ideas?). I will have a little experiment first.

dom wrote on 07/16/11 at 21:00:06:
- how much time to do this work ?

Quite a lot, there is no particular rush. Smiley


@Tony: job done (SF,MNb method: adding ECO code beginning of subject first post threads) for French forum..now tired  Tongue ...i will hibernate for some months  Cool
  

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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #56 - 07/23/11 at 15:53:21
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 07/22/11 at 17:16:26:
One thing that worries me slightly is that my example, E97-E99, would mean that if someone was searching for E98, they wouldn't pull up the references.

Yes, good point!
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #55 - 07/23/11 at 09:07:03
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 07/22/11 at 17:16:26:
One thing that worries me slightly is that my example, E97-E99, would mean that if someone was searching for E98, they wouldn't pull up the references.


@SF: same worry for French forum...I have decided for adding "Cxx-Cyy" comment in subject thread for thread about variations with ECO between Cxx and Cyy..and  "Cxx,Cyy"  for variations with ECO code Cxx or Cyy. When off topic (for example: "comparing Caro Kan to French"...I add nothing)

I suppose at the end of thread ECO-quoting, I will add one "index thread" to URL-link to all threads. Can add name of variations and move orders too. Something like this:

Reverse colors or transpositions ("Chigorin", "Steiner", "KIA", "Schlechter", "Reti/Spielman", "Pelikan", "De La Bourdonnais"...)
A00
A08
A13
B02
B12
B20
B24
B26
B40
C42
C44
D20
D40
...
C00-C19
  llinks to all French defence sujects...like books "about the French" in general
   C00
      links only for C00 lines
   C01
      ...
   C02 "Advance"
   ...
   C15-C19
      links for all Winawer lines
      C15
            links for only C15 lines


I started another work for ECO-quoting and URL-linking of updates...with same idea.
  

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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #54 - 07/22/11 at 17:16:26
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One thing that worries me slightly is that my example, E97-E99, would mean that if someone was searching for E98, they wouldn't pull up the references.

However, this is a rare occurrence for several reasons, and the fix (entering all the ECO codes) is just about completely unworkable. For instance, there could well be a thread on the Spanish asking for Black's best play after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4. The ECO code for that thread would be C70-C99. It would be impossible to enumerate all the ECO codes in the subject.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #53 - 07/21/11 at 19:57:05
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Jesse Gersenson wrote on 07/21/11 at 08:26:01:
Is it better to tag posts with an ECO or just whole threads?

If tagging posts - seems possible to add a drop down box to the reply window just between Message Icon and Subject which said "ECO". 

I thought about a solution like this, but it would be very difficult to include the box in searches. Already I saw that they had a similar problem with trying to make a Sub-Boards Mod for YaBB 2.4: the Sub-Boards didn't get searched. As far as I see they never managed to solve this problem. Roll Eyes
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #52 - 07/21/11 at 18:26:20
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Jesse,

I don't even want to think how much time it would take to tag individual posts with ECO code.

What's wrong with tagging a thread with the ECO code where applicable?  Is there something I'm missing about say, "E97-E99: Mar del Plata KID"?

Generally, if an individual post doesn't deal with the subject, chances are it's off topic anyway.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #51 - 07/21/11 at 08:26:01
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Is it better to tag posts with an ECO or just whole threads?

If tagging posts - seems possible to add a drop down box to the reply window just between Message Icon and Subject which said "ECO". Not everyone would use it, but some would - reducing work and simplifying future overhauls.

does Yabb have a simple 'tag this post with keywords' feature? (tried googling this and ran into the problem that Yabb people use the word tag for something other than 'tagging a thread') This seems better than adding eco code to subject line as some threads will cover multiple eco numbers.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #50 - 07/20/11 at 10:59:31
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If I've missed an option please let me know and I will add it. Smiley
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #49 - 07/20/11 at 10:12:51
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 07/17/11 at 03:12:00:
I'm experimenting with the C20-C59 section.

I'm currently adding the code to the beginning of subject. I find that easy to see without being too obtrusive.

It would be nice if there were an ECO code box for thread authors to use in addition to the subject.


Looks good, and should be a big help.
To add an ECO code box is a good idea but would involve fiddling with the YaBB code, and is certainly beyond me.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #48 - 07/17/11 at 17:21:45
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@GMTonyKosten: OK  (I understand that members must be able to do themselves copying in thread subject the variation name and ECO code...).

See: http://www.365chess.com/opening.php for online tool to search these data from raw moves.
I entered "1. e4 e6 2. Nf3 d5 3. e5 c5 4. b4 " and got the good answer "C00 French, Wing gambit"
or "1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.Bd3 c5 6.c3 Nc6 7.Ne2 cxd4 8.cxd4 f6 9.exf6 Nxf6 10.O-O Bd6 11.Nf3 Qc7 12.Bg5 O-O 13.Bh4 Nh5 14.Qc2 h6 15.Bh7+ Kh8 16.Bg6 Rxf3 17.Bxh5 Rf5 " and got "C06 French, Tarrasch, closed variation, main line"

Problem: I would have prefer to have script on chesspub forum (no need to register to another website)
  

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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #47 - 07/17/11 at 12:29:38
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 07/17/11 at 11:36:59:
Sounds like a good idea, I will download and install it. Wink

Looking at the files it seems it is only for Moderators, so members won't be able to add ECO codes themselves like this. Sad
I think we should stick with adding the ECO codes at the beginning of the post subject, like Smyslov_Fan's work on 1 e4 e5.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #46 - 07/17/11 at 11:36:59
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dom wrote on 07/17/11 at 07:44:43:
@GMTonyKosten:I am beginner with Yabb..but..a mod like ThreadHeader is not enough to add header to thread ? 

Sounds like a good idea, I will download and install it. Wink
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #45 - 07/17/11 at 07:44:43
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@GMTonyKosten:I am beginner with Yabb..but..a mod like ThreadHeader is not enough to add header to thread ?  (just google  "ThreadHeader" to find webpage of this mod Yabb)

Quote:
Description: With this mod, moderators and admins have the option of adding a header to each thread individually, containing any relevent infomation to that thread.
These information headers can contain html and ubbc tags, and have an optional title.
  

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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #44 - 07/17/11 at 07:26:31
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@GM TonyKosten: .. OK ... let me now when experiment finished

@SF: yes, I see in ... "C36 King's Gambit/Modern Var." in the "Subject field"   (maybe you can reverse like suggested by Tony and same form that updates titles: "King's Gambit/Modern [C36]"

I have ECO opening names from one Perl module (Chess_PGN_EPD) I downloaded from CPAN (I am working to code one graphical software tool to show opening variations as a map centered on starting position)....but I am not sure this file is uptodate.

ECO.txt file

"CODE","FEN"
"E38*","r1b1kbnr/ppq1pppp/2n5/1Bpp4/2P5/4PN2/PP1P1PPP/RNBQK2R b KQkq -"
"B73","r1bqk2r/pp2ppbp/2np1np1/8/3NP3/2N1B3/PPP1BPPP/R2Q1RK1 b kq -"
"D46","r1bqkb1r/pp1n1ppp/2p1pn2/3p4/2PP4/2NBPN2/PP3PPP/R1BQK2R b KQkq -"
"B90*","r1bqkb1r/ppp2ppp/2n5/3np3/8/P2P1N2/1P2PPPP/RNBQKB1R b KQkq -"
"C67","r1bqkb1r/pppp1ppp/2n5/1B2p3/4n3/5N2/PPPP1PPP/RNBQ1RK1 w kq -"

Opening.txt file:

"CODE","FEN"
"Ruy Lopez: closed, Balla variation","r1b1k2r/2q1bppp/p2p1n2/npp1p3/P2PP3/2P2N2/1PB2PPP/RNBQR1K1 b kq -"
"Scotch: Meitner variation","r1b1k2r/ppppnppp/2n2q2/2b5/4P3/2P1B3/PPN2PPP/RN1QKB1R b KQkq -"
"KP: Nimzovich defense, Marshall gambit","r1b1kbnr/ppp1pppp/2n5/3q4/3P4/2N5/PPP2PPP/R1BQKBNR b KQkq -"
"QGD: Albin counter-gambit, Balogh variation","r1b1kbnr/ppp1qppp/2n5/4P3/2Pp4/5N2/PP1NPPPP/R1BQKB1R w KQkq -"
"Evans gambit declined, Cordel variation","r1bqk1nr/pppp1ppp/1bn5/4p3/1PB1P3/5N2/PBPP1PPP/RN1QK2R b KQkq -"

NIC.txt file:

"CODE","FEN"
"NI 22*","r1b1kbnr/ppq1pppp/2n5/1Bpp4/2P5/4PN2/PP1P1PPP/RNBQK2R b KQkq -"
"KI 63","r1bq1rk1/pp1n1pbp/2pp1np1/4p3/2PPP3/2N2NP1/PP3PBP/R1BQ1RK1 w - -"
"KI 7*","r1bq1rk1/pp1nbppp/2n5/2p1p3/3pP3/3P1NP1/PPP1NPBP/R1BQ1RK1 w - -"
"EO 26*","r1bq1rk1/pp2ppbp/2n3p1/2pn4/8/2N2NP1/PP1PPPBP/R1BQ1RK1 w - -"
"KI 62*","r1bq1rk1/pp3pb1/2n2npp/2ppp3/4P3/2PP1NP1/PP1N1PBP/R1BQ1RK1 w - -"
  

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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #43 - 07/17/11 at 03:12:00
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I'm experimenting with the C20-C59 section.

I'm currently adding the code to the beginning of subject. I find that easy to see without being too obtrusive.

It would be nice if there were an ECO code box for thread authors to use in addition to the subject.

  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #42 - 07/16/11 at 23:25:02
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dom wrote on 07/16/11 at 21:00:06:
- where (in thread) and how to add the ECO tag ?

Good question! I think it would have to be at the end of the title in the very first post for each thread (unless anyone has any better ideas?). I will have a little experiment first.

dom wrote on 07/16/11 at 21:00:06:
- how much time to do this work ?

Quite a lot, there is no particular rush. Smiley
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #41 - 07/16/11 at 21:00:06
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 07/16/11 at 12:28:36:
However, I am open to offers if anyone wants a free sub? Wink


I can do the work for the French forum, but for one good  result can you answer these questions:

- where (in thread) and how to add the ECO tag ?
- how much time to do this work ?

I have ended my disastrous games and back to work from now then I have spare time in the evening and week-end to do it.

I can add too, moves order to reach the critical ECO position (I have Bookup software for that)....only need some more time.





  

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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #40 - 07/16/11 at 12:28:36
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 07/05/11 at 23:36:10:
Seriously, the main talent of such a IM or whatever would not be the high Elo, but the willingness to share analyses, and no overly fear of "giving away secrets". They might just as well LEARN new ideas here. Candidates can be found easily by leafing through NIC Yearbooks. Why not contact the creative Nadanian (of GI Na4 fame), or Gajewski (RL Rb8), or Manuel Bellon, or... there are so many.

They would already raise the quality of the forum, if they'd send only one post per day. Even if some of their posts were short. An average payment of 3 Euro per post, max. 100 per month, for stars 5 Euro / max. 150 Euro per month perhaps. If they do more just for fun, even better. Unconvincing engagements could be stopped after a while.

With a forum fee, it would almost have the character of a (large) club. Not the same situation as if you share your posts with the entire internet for free.

Agreed.

Stefan Buecker wrote on 07/05/11 at 23:09:05:
Seems to be the kind of activity which you could better delegate to "assistant moderators" or "code officers" who would get free access in return, for a year or so. I mean, there are always newcomers to this forum who would perhaps enjoy to go through older threads systematically.

True, but I am not sure I would trust newcomers with Gobal Moderator powers. However, I am open to offers if anyone wants a free sub? Wink
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #39 - 07/05/11 at 23:36:10
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 07/05/11 at 22:30:49:
Maybe, but I imagine these younger, but very strong, players would probably expect quite a high payment in return for sharing their analysis. Which would imply making even more money from the Forum! Sad
Even getting a few good IMs and average GMs to contribute should make the discussions more interesting.
Hopefully the members will be able to refrain from chasing them off, as has happened in the past! Roll Eyes

Superstars are not resilient enough, anyway, to withstand the pressure of this forum!  Roll Eyes

Seriously, the main talent of such a IM or whatever would not be the high Elo, but the willingness to share analyses, and no overly fear of "giving away secrets". They might just as well LEARN new ideas here. Candidates can be found easily by leafing through NIC Yearbooks. Why not contact the creative Nadanian (of GI Na4 fame), or Gajewski (RL Rb8), or Manuel Bellon, or... there are so many.

They would already raise the quality of the forum, if they'd send only one post per day. Even if some of their posts were short. An average payment of 3 Euro per post, max. 100 per month, for stars 5 Euro / max. 150 Euro per month perhaps. If they do more just for fun, even better. Unconvincing engagements could be stopped after a while.

With a forum fee, it would almost have the character of a (large) club. Not the same situation as if you share your posts with the entire internet for free.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #38 - 07/05/11 at 23:09:05
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 07/05/11 at 22:24:13:
I might have to 'bite the bullet' one day and go through all the old threads myself adding ECO codes (or something else) where necessary. I suppose I might need a few weeks free time for this, though! Sad

Seems to be the kind of activity which you could better delegate to "assistant moderators" or "code officers" who would get free access in return, for a year or so. I mean, there are always newcomers to this forum who would perhaps enjoy to go through older threads systematically.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #37 - 07/05/11 at 22:30:49
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GabrielGale wrote on 06/26/11 at 23:30:20:
A suggestion: Perhaps Tony can try to "entice" the younger/more junior GMs who are trying to establish their names/reputations to contribute to the forum? Some of these younger GMs are very concrete in their opening analyses and very enthusiastic as well. For example, Chessbase has Anish Giri, Chessdom had Fabiano Caruana contributing for a while to their discussion board and they also have GM Ipatov et al.


Maybe, but I imagine these younger, but very strong, players would probably expect quite a high payment in return for sharing their analysis. Which would imply making even more money from the Forum! Sad
Even getting a few good IMs and average GMs to contribute should make the discussions more interesting.
Hopefully the members will be able to refrain from chasing them off, as has happened in the past! Roll Eyes
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #36 - 07/05/11 at 22:24:13
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Zwischenzugzwang wrote on 06/27/11 at 13:37:46:
I guess the tags you've mentioned are something like key words!? If there isn't a software internal possibility to tag a thread with keywords, anybody starting a new thread might give one or two reasonable key words in the thread's header (Stefan's suggestion about ECO codes has probably the same intention).

It would be in the "thread starter's" own interest to make the keywords as reasonable as possible, as that would increase the likelihood for that thread to be found and / or identified (and consequently commented).

The ECO code has the advantage that it is available to everybody who has internet access, but, as mentioned at different places, the whole system is dated. So another possibility were to use the taxonomy developed inside ChessPublishing - quite general ("1.d4 d5"), more detailed ("QGA"), or highly detailed ("QGA/2"). (Of course, as we don't want to exclude non-members from the forum, they would need a free access link somewhere to this taxonomy, which shouldn't take very long to develop (just copying it from the pdf-books.)

Concerning books, the key words might be author, title, maybe year of publication. Again: The better the key words are (spelling, completeness), the higher the likelihood of being found.


Yes, some bulletin boards allow the possibility of adding tags but this one doesn't seem to, or at least not yet. I might have to 'bite the bullet' one day and go through all the old threads myself adding ECO codes (or something else) where necessary. I suppose I might need a few weeks free time for this, though! Sad
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #35 - 07/05/11 at 22:18:40
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WSS wrote on 07/05/11 at 16:05:52:
You are right, of course.  I've gone ahead and become your latest subscriber!


Smiley
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #34 - 07/05/11 at 16:05:52
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 07/05/11 at 15:07:02:
WSS wrote on 07/05/11 at 13:19:49:
As a suggestion, would you consider a special "first time subscriber" offer where someone like me can try out a section (one time only) for a limited time (say 3 months) before purchasing a longer subscription?


Sounds complicated, but anyone can just subscribe to 1 section (a whole year for less than $20) anyway, and then upgrade if they like it. I don't think you can get many paper books for as little as that?

WSS wrote on 07/05/11 at 13:19:49:
Regarding the forum user restrictions and fees, it seems to me that the forum has value in attracting new users which would not happen if it was closed.


I would hope so, although I often have my doubts about this when I see some of the posts.
Anyway the original question of this thread is 'where is the Forum going next?' I would like to have better quality contributions, a faster server, etc. and that needs money. Sad


You are right, of course.  I've gone ahead and become your latest subscriber!
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #33 - 07/05/11 at 15:07:02
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WSS wrote on 07/05/11 at 13:19:49:
As a suggestion, would you consider a special "first time subscriber" offer where someone like me can try out a section (one time only) for a limited time (say 3 months) before purchasing a longer subscription?


Sounds complicated, but anyone can just subscribe to 1 section (a whole year for less than $20) anyway, and then upgrade if they like it. I don't think you can get many paper books for as little as that?

WSS wrote on 07/05/11 at 13:19:49:
Regarding the forum user restrictions and fees, it seems to me that the forum has value in attracting new users which would not happen if it was closed.


I would hope so, although I often have my doubts about this when I see some of the posts.
Anyway the original question of this thread is 'where is the Forum going next?' I would like to have better quality contributions, a faster server, etc. and that needs money. Sad
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #32 - 07/05/11 at 13:19:49
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Tony, I'd like to add a few comments from the perspective of someone who is relatively new to the forum.  First of all, I'd like to thank you and the regular contributors for making this one of the few sites that I check daily and try to contribute to (when I have something to offer or a question to ask.)
 
Personally the site has been valuable to me because it has lifted me out of the "doldrums" of my local chess club and reinvigorated my interest in improving my opening theory.  To be candid, I've not yet subscribed because the money I've spent so far has been on buying selected chess books as I was not quite sure I was ready to make full use of information available to subscribers.  As a suggestion, would you consider a special "first time subscriber" offer where someone like me can try out a section (one time only) for a limited time (say 3 months) before purchasing a longer subscription?  To be clear, I would suggest that this be limited to one section only so it is not abused.

Regarding the forum user restrictions and fees, it seems to me that the forum has value in attracting new users which would not happen if it was closed.  I understand the "help me with my repertoire" question fatigue that some have expressed but it doesn't bother me because if a question doesn't interest me I don't have to read and respond.  What contributes to the problem (as you and others have stated) is that it is difficult and time consuming to find the duplicate entries.  Better search capabilities, improved organization of the content or a FAQ section as has been suggested might help.  However, each of these require some up front investment in administrative effort to make the improvements. 

Thanks again.  Smiley
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #31 - 07/04/11 at 23:38:45
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hicetnunc wrote on 06/30/11 at 11:56:22:
A logical business model would be as follow :

- forum access is free for Chess Publishing subscribers
- other members are required to pay a forum subscription to access the great content here (maybe 7€/month, or something like that)
- Tony grants free access to his pick of the best forum contributors who are not already Chesspublishing members  Smiley

Yes, that makes a lot of sense to me.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #30 - 07/04/11 at 23:37:41
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Quote:
the forum is in no way connected to resident DJs, rather running on its own. so why make posters pay for a value that mainly comes from themselves ?

Please have a look at my first 3 posts to see why.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #29 - 07/03/11 at 20:37:11
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Wasn't it Henry Ford saying something: Half of my marketing is thrown out of the window and I would pay excellent for the one telling me which half.

The forum is marketing for the subscription. Without the forum I would not have subscribed and it gives me the feeling: There's a place where I can ask or propose something, when necessary.
  

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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #28 - 07/03/11 at 20:16:53
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- free to read and pay to write is enough, at least you can  farm the "me and my style" variety.
- as opposite to another post, I would suggest to reserve the search function to non-payers only.
- chances are that this forum turns dead the minute it becomes paying. Year after year, you made a great tool of the paying sections by giving time-to-market opening analysis, often more spirited than YB. However the forum is in no way connected to resident DJs, rather running on its own. so why make posters pay for a value that mainly comes from themselves ? If the problem is that you don't have enough income to pay the DJs, perhaps you should first add "paying value" to the forum, e.g. by distinguisinq "outstanding threads" and have a DJ make a sum-up in the forum section (first free, then paying). If the forum must pay for DJs, they must work for the forum.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #27 - 06/30/11 at 11:56:22
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A logical business model would be as follow :

- forum access is free for Chess Publishing subscribers
- other members are required to pay a forum subscription to access the great content here (maybe 7€/month, or something like that)
- Tony grants free access to his pick of the best forum contributors who are not already Chesspublishing members  Smiley
  

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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #26 - 06/30/11 at 11:52:41
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Lou_Cyber wrote on 06/28/11 at 15:16:07:
The forum is great, but the core of chesspub are the regular updates. Therefore you should try to make every forum member a subscriber.

Yes, that is another possibility. A bit hard on good Forum contributors who can't afford the sub, but it is certainly worth serious consideration.

TopNotch wrote on 06/27/11 at 21:20:48:
Create an FAQ, although I bet these questions will still find their way to the main boards.


I doubt many new members would bother to read it, we could also add something to the sign-up agreement, but again who ever bothers to read these? Roll Eyes
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #25 - 06/28/11 at 15:16:07
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The forum is great, but the core of chesspub are the regular updates. Therefore you should try to make every forum member a subscriber. Possible ways:

- Only subscribers are allowed to post, use the search functions etc. unlimited. Free members might be restricted to 1 post per day, no search, no diagrams, no whatever.

- Create a closed forum only for subscribers, if only for one thread on each game mentioned in the updates. Exclusive access to these discussions might create a flow toward more subscriptions.
One additional benefit: Due to the copyright of Chesspub so far we rarely discuss the annotations in the forum. Often valuable ideas and comments are only sent to the authors by email. In a closed forum we could discuss freely (though this might scare away some of your authors).  Wink

- Keep the forum free for subscribers. I HATE to pay for any extras ... i´d rather accept a rise for subscriptions in general than have another "forum section" to subscribe to. Keep it simple and clean, this should make chesspub more attractive for new subscribers. 
  

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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #24 - 06/27/11 at 21:20:48
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 06/27/11 at 13:17:07:
As a reader, I am tired of the endlessly repetitive repertoire questions too.

But as a moderator, I recognise that these endlessly repetitive questions are asked so often because they are of critical importance to many of the people here. The general chess discussion group, which I moderate, is the place for such questions. It may be tiresome for the stronger players to see these questions, but I believe they deserve to be made.
I would like to see a separate section just for those questions. That way, players who don't like them can stay away from that section entirely while those who find such lines of questioning useful can gravitate toward them. But just because we (the people posting in this particular thread) may find them boringly redundant doesn't mean they should be censored.

It is also possible to review the rules for chit chat. But I believe that censorship should be performed with a light touch, not an ironclad fist. As a moderator, I have deleted or censored many offensive or inappropriate posts. I have kept many more alive that dealt with controversial (non-chess related) topics. Many of the regulars here contribute to that section. Perhaps we could revisit the rules.

For instance, should reincarnation comments not be allowed simply because the great majority of us find them laughably ludicous? I can't think of a legitimate reason to censor such comments. 

If the censorship test is "laughably ludicrous", then there are many chess-related comments that would also be mercilessly censored. Rather, we can either ignore those comments that we find to be stupid or ridiculous (but not offensive) or we can try to answer them.

Personally, I tend to ignore the "laughably ludicrous" comments. If they aren't offensive, they shouldn't be censored. My personal test is if the comment could survive the censorship of something like BBC's news forum, I will allow it.


Create an FAQ, although I bet these questions will still find their way to the main boards.

Tops Smiley
  

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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #23 - 06/27/11 at 13:37:46
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Hello everybody!

Quote GMTonyKosten: "So we will need to address the question 'how can we make it easier to find that information?'
Although I have been loathe to do this, I am beginning to think that we might need to increase the number of sections, mostly by further sub-dividing the current ones. It might also be possible to add tags, or use ECO codes, but implementing this would be problematic.
On a slightly technical note I would also like to move to a faster, more secure (and unfortunately more expensive!) server with more bandwidth." - End Quote

Tony, I guess the tags you've mentioned are something like key words!? If there isn't a software internal possibility to tag a thread with keywords, anybody starting a new thread might give one or two reasonable key words in the thread's header (Stefan's suggestion about ECO codes has probably the same intention).

It would be in the "thread starter's" own interest to make the keywords as reasonable as possible, as that would increase the likelihood for that thread to be found and / or identified (and consequently commented).

The ECO code has the advantage that it is available to everybody who has internet access, but, as mentioned at different places, the whole system is dated. So another possibility were to use the taxonomy developed inside ChessPublishing - quite general ("1.d4 d5"), more detailed ("QGA"), or highly detailed ("QGA/2"). (Of course, as we don't want to exclude non-members from the forum, they would need a free access link somewhere to this taxonomy, which shouldn't take very long to develop (just copying it from the pdf-books.)

Concerning books, the key words might be author, title, maybe year of publication. Again: The better the key words are (spelling, completeness), the higher the likelihood of being found.

I don't know if there's a possibility to give different priority levels to threads. If there is, threads with a very specific topic (e.g. "QGA/2") could get a higher priority than more generall topics ("Kings Indian") and those a higher priority than totally generell topics (I like GabrielGale's wording, so Quote: "I don't know whether to play the Caro, Sicilian, Petroff, become a Catholic, or flagellate myself with a length of knotted rope. Which is best?" - End Quote)
- they might be higher in the list of threads, they might remain longer in the system (btw, after how many years will a thread be deleted?), they might be highlighted the one or the other way.

The priority status might be awarded by the moderators which shouldn't be too much work (according to my (limited)observation so far, there aren't very many new threads per day), and it would definitely be enough to do that once a day. The rules for them would be quite simple and no subject of discussion: Something like "QGA/2" would have priority A, "QGA" priority B, "1.d4 d5" priority C, no keyword at all priority D (or ZZZ). A combination of keywords might also lower the priority, e.g. "QGA/2, QGA3" would end up with priority B - a reason to select exactly one detailed key word.

To avoid the hijacking of "good" keywords, the moderators might be entitled to simply remove them from a thread, if they don't match the thread's content - no keyword at all, consequently priority D.

So the serious users of the forum would get a tool for improving it's self-organisation, whose results might also attract the "selctionistas'" (I cannot really believe that is their "official term"?) attention who might make better use of it by checking and maybe using some of the analysises provided in the forum.

If all that would work (well, maybe I'm sometimes a little naive concerning both technical possibilities und human behaviour  Undecided), the number of sections might remain the same, which might also decrease the need for a new server - (no new server --> no additional costs --> no horrible blinking adds  Smiley). Coming back to the quote from the beginning, I can't evaluate the security of the existing server, but I don't see a speed problem in the forum.

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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #22 - 06/27/11 at 13:17:07
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As a reader, I am tired of the endlessly repetitive repertoire questions too.

But as a moderator, I recognise that these endlessly repetitive questions are asked so often because they are of critical importance to many of the people here. The general chess discussion group, which I moderate, is the place for such questions. It may be tiresome for the stronger players to see these questions, but I believe they deserve to be made.

I would like to see a separate section just for those questions. That way, players who don't like them can stay away from that section entirely while those who find such lines of questioning useful can gravitate toward them. But just because we (the people posting in this particular thread) may find them boringly redundant doesn't mean they should be censored.

It is also possible to review the rules for chit chat. But I believe that censorship should be performed with a light touch, not an ironclad fist. As a moderator, I have deleted or censored many offensive or inappropriate posts. I have kept many more alive that dealt with controversial (non-chess related) topics. Many of the regulars here contribute to that section. Perhaps we could revisit the rules.

For instance, should reincarnation comments not be allowed simply because the great majority of us find them laughably ludicous? I can't think of a legitimate reason to censor such comments. 

If the censorship test is "laughably ludicrous", then there are many chess-related comments that would also be mercilessly censored. Rather, we can either ignore those comments that we find to be stupid or ridiculous (but not offensive) or we can try to answer them.

Personally, I tend to ignore the "laughably ludicrous" comments. If they aren't offensive, they shouldn't be censored. My personal test is if the comment could survive the censorship of something like BBC's news forum, I will allow it.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #21 - 06/27/11 at 11:42:57
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Bibs wrote on 06/27/11 at 00:07:21:
Agree totally there. Leech, leech, leech. Dreary.
1. "I have a 4 year old 1850 student who needs something versus the French. Tell me."
2. "I don't know whether to play the Caro, Sicilian, Petroff, become a Catholic, or flagellate myself with a length of knotted rope. Which is best?"

Further agree: need better, more active moderation. Mostly in idiot-removal. Two obvious ones come to mind.

I can only agree with GabrielGale and Bibs. In particular with this observation made by GabrielGale:

Quote:
[...] lately the postings are not as interesting as before. (I wnet back to the beginning of most sections and read the threads. Very educational for a novice like me. But I noticed that a number of older subscribers are not postings as much as before. [...] I feel there are not enough discussions of concrete variations as before.

I had the same impression. The percentage of posts about concrete variations is in decline. - Having to pay a small fee would already keep away many of those 4-year-olds. There should also be more moderators, with clear duties (maybe even adding ECO codes to opening threads, which would make it easier to find a variation?). Clear forum rules would help a lot ("When you start a new opening thread, don't forget to add the ECO code", "no personal insults", "no discriminating of openings", "no spam", "no cheerleading for illegal downloads of copyrighted works", etc. etc.).

Quote:
Perhaps Tony can clarify whether the plan is for 1) a totally closed subscriber only (ie only subscribers can view and post); 2) partially closed subscriber only (ie only subscriber can post but everyone can view).

You forgot the third option: 3) those who are not willing to contribute have to pay (more).
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #20 - 06/27/11 at 00:07:21
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GabrielGale wrote on 06/26/11 at 23:30:20:
My apologies for the length of this post but I am bit uncertain about this direction that ChessPub Forum is taking. I thought I need to provide some feedback from a novice former and future subscriber. Perhaps Tony can clarify whether the plan is for 1) a totally closed subscriber only (ie only subscribers can view and post); 2) partially closed subscriber only (ie only subscriber can post but everyone can view).

For my part I was a subscriber to ChessPub but no longer as I realised I cannot keep up with the monthly updates and my chessic strength is not at the level where I require such up to date info. But I am planning to subscribe again. However, from day 1,  I have enjoyed the Forum albeit lately the postings are not as interesting as before. (I wnet back to the beginning of most sections and read the threads. Very educational for a novice like me. But I noticed that a number of older subscribers are not postings as much as before. Not sure whether they have moved on or they are increasingly put off by the postings. I would be very sad not to see contributions from Topnotch (still haven't figured out who he is, someone send me a PM), Bibs, Black Widow (?), Alumbrado, Slates et al. But I enjoyed some of the present ones such as those which described in concrete terms openings and variations pitched at all levels (I remember I read about the Archangelsk Var on ChessPub Forum first), eg, the current Modern after I Nf3 thread is quite interesting (thanks to BPaulsen, Glenn Snow, Smyslov_Fan, Kylemeister and also to TN, Amenaitos, MnB, Stigma, Micawber, dom, and even Markovich et al for their contributions). I feel there are not enough discussions of concrete variations as before. If as is being stated by many chess coaches that opening theory is becoming 20-25 moves deep, then I think there is still lots of scope to discuss openings and perhaps now their opening/middlegame plans strategy. Too many "help me to improve including repertoire help" turning this from an opening discussion forum into a chess improvement forum.

Input from sections authors and/or other GMs and IMs are think very much welcomed but not sure whether the economics of return are a sufficient incentive. A suggestion: Perhaps Tony can try to "entice" the younger/more junior GMs who are trying to establish their names/reputations to contribute to the forum? Some of these younger GMs are very concrete in their opening analyses and very enthusiastic as well. For example, Chessbase has Anish Giri, Chessdom had Fabiano Caruana contributing for a while to their discussion board and they also have GM Ipatov et al.

In conclusion, I would opt for the following:
1) My obvious preference is for ChessPub to remain as it is but probably with more moderation in the direction to prevent the proliferation of similar and same threads and perhaps some thought given to organisation of sections and threads. However, if not possible, then,
2) ChessPub Forum should be half-closed ie only ChessPub subscribers can post but the threads are open to general public;
3) A ChessPub subscriber should have free subscription to the sections he/she is a subscriber. A Gold subscriber would obviously have access to all sections.


Agree totally there. Leech, leech, leech. Dreary.
1. "I have a 4 year old 1850 student who needs something versus the French. Tell me."
2. "I don't know whether to play the Caro, Sicilian, Petroff, become a Catholic, or flagellate myself with a length of knotted rope. Which is best?"

Further agree: need better, more active moderation. Mostly in idiot-removal. Two obvious ones come to mind.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #19 - 06/26/11 at 23:30:20
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My apologies for the length of this post but I am bit uncertain about this direction that ChessPub Forum is taking. I thought I need to provide some feedback from a novice former and future subscriber. Perhaps Tony can clarify whether the plan is for 1) a totally closed subscriber only (ie only subscribers can view and post); 2) partially closed subscriber only (ie only subscriber can post but everyone can view).

For my part I was a subscriber to ChessPub but no longer as I realised I cannot keep up with the monthly updates and my chessic strength is not at the level where I require such up to date info. But I am planning to subscribe again. However, from day 1,  I have enjoyed the Forum albeit lately the postings are not as interesting as before. (I wnet back to the beginning of most sections and read the threads. Very educational for a novice like me. But I noticed that a number of older subscribers are not postings as much as before. Not sure whether they have moved on or they are increasingly put off by the postings. I would be very sad not to see contributions from Topnotch (still haven't figured out who he is, someone send me a PM), Bibs, Black Widow (?), Alumbrado, Slates et al. But I enjoyed some of the present ones such as those which described in concrete terms openings and variations pitched at all levels (I remember I read about the Archangelsk Var on ChessPub Forum first), eg, the current Modern after I Nf3 thread is quite interesting (thanks to BPaulsen, Glenn Snow, Smyslov_Fan, Kylemeister and also to TN, Amenaitos, MnB, Stigma, Micawber, dom, and even Markovich et al for their contributions). I feel there are not enough discussions of concrete variations as before. If as is being stated by many chess coaches that opening theory is becoming 20-25 moves deep, then I think there is still lots of scope to discuss openings and perhaps now their opening/middlegame plans strategy. Too many "help me to improve including repertoire help" turning this from an opening discussion forum into a chess improvement forum.

Input from sections authors and/or other GMs and IMs are think very much welcomed but not sure whether the economics of return are a sufficient incentive. A suggestion: Perhaps Tony can try to "entice" the younger/more junior GMs who are trying to establish their names/reputations to contribute to the forum? Some of these younger GMs are very concrete in their opening analyses and very enthusiastic as well. For example, Chessbase has Anish Giri, Chessdom had Fabiano Caruana contributing for a while to their discussion board and they also have GM Ipatov et al.

In conclusion, I would opt for the following:
1) My obvious preference is for ChessPub to remain as it is but probably with more moderation in the direction to prevent the proliferation of similar and same threads and perhaps some thought given to organisation of sections and threads. However, if not possible, then,
2) ChessPub Forum should be half-closed ie only ChessPub subscribers can post but the threads are open to general public;
3) A ChessPub subscriber should have free subscription to the sections he/she is a subscriber. A Gold subscriber would obviously have access to all sections.
  

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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #18 - 06/26/11 at 12:42:08
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Google ads: intrusive, hideous.

As it happens, was ages before I realised that non-subscribers could write. I just assumed it was part of the package.

I appreciate the desire to make money, but aside from that, appears quite okay as it is. Though would like moderators to be a bit more thoroughgoing with persistent crass idiocy. But that is another matter....

Perhaps moderators could be paid from the ads...?
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #17 - 06/26/11 at 08:42:50
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Daniel wrote on 06/25/11 at 23:40:23:
the message boards I know that do this are huge, have lots of trolls, and generate income by banning them and having them reregister.  We don't appear to be big enough or have persistent enough trolls to do this.

LOL
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #16 - 06/26/11 at 08:40:47
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Daniel wrote on 06/25/11 at 23:40:23:
I think the annoyance of ads really depends where you place the ads.  An ad on top or on the side is not terrible as long as it isn't some horrible video that pops up when you move the cursor over it.

If we use Google then you have no control over which Ads appear, it will vary according to the page content and the whereabouts of whoever is looking at the page.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #15 - 06/25/11 at 23:40:23
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Paying to write in a specific thread does not sound like a good idea.  Maybe paying a one time fee to register an account would be ok but the message boards I know that do this are huge, have lots of trolls, and generate income by banning them and having them reregister.  We don't appear to be big enough or have persistent enough trolls to do this.  The idea of having to have membership in the mainsite to join the ChessPub or else pay a small fee might not be too bad though.

I think the annoyance of ads really depends where you place the ads.  An ad on top or on the side is not terrible as long as it isn't some horrible video that pops up when you move the cursor over it.

This assumes that most members would rather have a couple ads than pay an extra few dollars a month when they already pay a hundred a year for access to the main site.  Maybe for those that detest ads there could be an ad free version that costs a few dollars a month to make up for the ad revenue.  A website I frequent (www.shoryuken.com) has done this for quite a while but recently got video ads (these aren't too bad as they don't play automatically) and a mediabar that is horrible annoying, takes up a good portion of the screen, and occasionally has random people singing when you move the cursor over it to get to the taskbar.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #14 - 06/25/11 at 20:13:59
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 06/25/11 at 13:51:16:
fling wrote on 06/25/11 at 12:01:05:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 06/25/11 at 10:25:24:
If sectionistas were visiting their "own" forum sections, it could improve connection and climate.

I think this is a thing that would be worth paying for, but not sure if all sectionistas will manage to do this. There are probably some reasons for them not doing this now. [...]

A possible explanation: osmosis. To get more paying members, a high concentration of Elo (salt) is kept in the main/pay area. Lower rated members can reach them only through the pay-wall (cell membrane). Regular visits of sectionistas in the Forum would ruin the osmosis. - When the Forum becomes pay area, it might change things.


Quite a lot of them keep a check on the lines discussed here, but I assume that most don't bother to post here as they simply don't have the time, it's amazing how much chessplayers have to work to make money these days, I'm always receiving emails saying that they have to finish a book by the end of the month, edit another one this week, while playing the Japanese league and a GM tournament somewhere else, Roll Eyes etc. By offering them a stipend it would make it worth their while.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #13 - 06/25/11 at 20:07:53
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 06/25/11 at 10:25:24:
The professional presentation with GM experts behind it, and a clear layout is important. I'd guess that the average member is a bit older (many are even interested in chess books!) and unhappy with optical chaos. Therefore I'd be cautious with adding many ads.


I guess I must also be older as I find 'optical chaos' very unpleasant, Embarrassed I really hate all those flashing Ads you get on lots of sites these days.

Stefan Buecker wrote on 06/25/11 at 10:25:24:
Member fees - what amounts are we speaking about? One Euro per month? Two?


I was thinking something trivial like this, yes.

Stefan Buecker wrote on 06/25/11 at 10:25:24:
Can you instead take 5 Euro for starting a new thread? (Two advantages: it would reduce the sprawl of beginner threads, and we would be sure that the OP has a serious interest in an answer.)


It's an interesting idea, but I imagine it will just lead to people high jacking related threads! Shocked

Stefan Buecker wrote on 06/25/11 at 10:25:24:
Would it be possible to get more in return for the increased revenue? ... If sectionistas were visiting their "own" forum sections, it could improve connection and climate.


Yes, this would be the main point of making some money, I could 'force' sectionistas to post by dangling a carrot in front of them!
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #12 - 06/25/11 at 16:26:32
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Are there other ways to make revenue streams?

1) What other chess forum sites do you have a precedence for membership fees (this oughta help figure out the best route!).

2) Isn't continuing to subdivide the forum really just a way to continue to push the problem of organizing it better off into the future.

Something I think would be good if you go the route of making some kind of fee to participate in the forum would be a trial membership (3 months free to the forum and maybe one sample free dl of a subscription section). It would keep the in flow of new members to see if they find the value in their money before they contribute rather than being straight away turned off by the fee. The question I guess I have is if you went fee based does this mean the entire forum would not be seen by guests or that they just could not post (if the latter then the fee is silly).

Maybe an opening of the month thread should be started? Each month a different opening is selected. To participate in the thread there should be a smallish fee lets say $5 and the prize could be either a year's subscription for free or $100 or some kind of lesson etc. The best posts would be summarized in the next month's subscription update that would reveal the winner. It might bring in some additional revenue.

I have to imagine there is more ways like this idea to get nontraditional revenue streams than just 'subscribe or advertise!'  Wink

You could always try to get an additional tool section added to the forum such as 'recent games in tournament x,y,z, which usually ended up with their own thread anyhow. Only now, it would be an efficient tool that a person could purchase for a smallish sum (say .99cents). There all sorts of ways to innovate!

Somehow, the better threads end up longish and far too hard to follow if you weren't there when they began. Perhaps there should be some kind of system whereby a pgn is created of that thread and each person can be .50 cents for the convenience of getting the pgn over sifting through the thread endlessly.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #11 - 06/25/11 at 13:51:16
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fling wrote on 06/25/11 at 12:01:05:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 06/25/11 at 10:25:24:
If sectionistas were visiting their "own" forum sections, it could improve connection and climate.

I think this is a thing that would be worth paying for, but not sure if all sectionistas will manage to do this. There are probably some reasons for them not doing this now. [...]

A possible explanation: osmosis. To get more paying members, a high concentration of Elo (salt) is kept in the main/pay area. Lower rated members can reach them only through the pay-wall (cell membrane). Regular visits of sectionistas in the Forum would ruin the osmosis. - When the Forum becomes pay area, it might change things.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #10 - 06/25/11 at 12:01:05
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 06/25/11 at 10:25:24:
If sectionistas were visiting their "own" forum sections, it could improve connection and climate.


I think this is a thing that would be worth paying for, but not sure if all sectionistas will manage to do this. There are probably some reasons for them not doing this now. One is that they might have to keep some novelties for their games rather than a forum. Also, since the updates aren't really always on time, I suspect some don't have much time/too low priority to even go in here and answer posts.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #9 - 06/25/11 at 10:25:24
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The professional presentation with GM experts behind it, and a clear layout is important. I'd guess that the average member is a bit older (many are even interested in chess books!) and unhappy with optical chaos. Therefore I'd be cautious with adding many ads.

Member fees - what amounts are we speaking about? One Euro per month? Two? Can you instead take 5 Euro for starting a new thread? (Two advantages: it would reduce the sprawl of beginner threads, and we would be sure that the OP has a serious interest in an answer.)

Would it be possible to get more in return for the increased revenue? E.g. members might play a game, moves decided by poll, vs John Watson. If the members win, they'd get a free month. If sectionistas were visiting their "own" forum sections, it could improve connection and climate.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #8 - 06/25/11 at 09:04:49
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BPaulsen wrote on 06/24/11 at 13:05:17:
Free: individuals have to deal with ads everywhere.

Paying: no ads to deal with.

Yes, interesting, I wonder how they do that?
Obviously I am not a contributor to their site so I get an entire screen full of Adverts, even 3 of their first 5 boards seem to be Ads! Huh
Well, I suppose it is a possiblity.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #7 - 06/24/11 at 13:08:06
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BPaulsen wrote on 06/24/11 at 13:05:17:
One of the message boards I frequent has two options:

I just posted that I didn't think this would be possible when your post popped up! Could you PM the link to me please so I can have a look?
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #6 - 06/24/11 at 13:05:17
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One of the message boards I frequent has two options:

Free: individuals have to deal with ads everywhere.

Paying: no ads to deal with.

That might be a viable option.
  

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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #5 - 06/24/11 at 08:55:06
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 06/23/11 at 22:10:12:
I am beginning to think that we might need to increase the number of sections, mostly by further sub-dividing the current ones.

The beta version of the site software features 'sub-boards' which would make this much easier to navigate, see http://www.yabbforum.com/community/.
Of course, this assumes they ever get around to finishing version 3! Sad
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #4 - 06/24/11 at 01:19:07
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To be honest, I would hope that a ChessPublishing membership would provide free access to the forums, especially since most of the valuable forum content is provided by forum members themselves.

Advertising seems like the most reasonable solution to me (and perhaps ChessPublishing members get an ad-free version).
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #3 - 06/24/11 at 01:14:58
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I don't think a subscription-based model separate from ChessPublishing would be ideal.  Maybe include ChessPub access in ChessPublishing Gold membership.  All of this would mean a potential loss of useful posts though from people turned off by having to pay if they find the ChessPub forum through Google or word of mouth.

A few advertisements would not be terrible.  Just no intrusive flash, video popups, or media bars.  If advertisers complain about their products getting trashed then they should just have to deal with it or advertise better products.  Perhaps ChessPublishing subscribers/Gold members could get an ad-free version.

  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #2 - 06/23/11 at 22:10:51
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One obvious deduction from all this is that the Forum will have to generate some money. Huh
There are two alternatives: advertising or subscriptions.
Of the two I would definitely prefer the 2nd as I find adverts on Forums (and sites in general) very obtrusive, in addition advertisers tend to like sympathetic treatment which might be liable to compromise the Forum's objectivity.
I have already received suggestions from some members to make the Forum paying (much like certain other successful Forums), and if we decide to take this route there remains the question: how much?
I think a smallish sum would be best, as this should certainly be sufficient to dissuade trolls, time-wasters and spammers, without chasing away serious contributors, while at the same time providing enough money to run the site.
I suppose Moderators would have free memberships, and ChessPublishing.com subscribers (or perhaps Gold Plus members) would pay less.
  
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Re: ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
Reply #1 - 06/23/11 at 22:10:12
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Here are my own thoughts:
First, I would like to further improve the overall quality of the posts, and obviously avoid spamming and advertising.
It would be great to have more high-class posts from GM/IM strength players, particularly ChessPublishing.com writers, although the main problem here is that professional players would obviously expect some sort of remuneration for this. Shocked
Second, the Forum is enormous and getting bigger by the minute, and currently it can be difficult to find information (although using Google isn't too bad) and this will inevitably get worse. Sad
So we will need to address the question 'how can we make it easier to find that information?'
Although I have been loathe to do this, I am beginning to think that we might need to increase the number of sections, mostly by further sub-dividing the current ones. It might also be possible to add tags, or use ECO codes, but implementing this would be problematic.
On a slightly technical note I would also like to move to a faster, more secure (and unfortunately more expensive!) server with more bandwidth.
  
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GMTonyKosten
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ChessPub Forum – the way forward.
06/23/11 at 22:09:24
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Since its foundation in 2002 the ChessPub Forum has advanced from being a small site whose aim was to simply allow ChessPublishing.com members to discuss the updates, to a major openings site in its own right.
The Forum has improved somewhat over the years:
Firstly, thanks to member Odd Gunnar Malin, we have been able to add graphic diagrams using FEN codes, and then thanks to Jesse's work we have playable Flash PGN games. Recently we have also added buttons to add both diagram tags and playable PGN tags more easily. Jesse has also managed to significantly speed up the page download times. Smiley

I think that now is a good time to take stock and decide on the future. So, which direction now? Undecided
  
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