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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Main Line Taimanov (Read 14116 times)
OrangeCounty
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Re: Main Line Taimanov
Reply #25 - 10/14/11 at 16:27:55
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Unfortunately, no generalizations are possible about which pawn breaks to play in this line for Black.  Black has a solid position, but there is no clear way to unravel.  In some positions, ...f6 is essential, in others, fatal.  These positions are hard to handle (especially, I think, for Black) which is why they are played among high-class players so often.  Even at the super-GM level, players may have a lapse given the complexity and danger inherent in this line.

White can lose, by the way, it isn't strictly two-result chess.  But for that to happen, White has to play passively enough that Black acquires some sort of central pawn roller.
  
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Re: Main Line Taimanov
Reply #24 - 10/13/11 at 18:40:06
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I rather like Agropop's 17..Nb4. The Knight must be on a better circuit here, especially with ideas of going to c6 and targetting e5 and d4. It also has the surprise factor going for it, even though it is move 17.

I do have a question about these sorts of positions. I have never played this line of the sicilian and I am curious, if it is better to play d6 or f6 in this type of position or does it matter? I did see one game from 2005, anand vs polgar where she played f5 and kept everything locked up and drew but that was very passive.
  
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Re: Main Line Taimanov
Reply #23 - 08/18/11 at 08:40:59
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Thanks for the info, soon after the game i looked what Delchev said about this...


I would be interested if someone has tried to improve Vidit's piece of analysis or if it's viable black's position after 17. ...Nb4. Any thought would be welcome.

  
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Re: Main Line Taimanov
Reply #22 - 08/18/11 at 08:17:59
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agropop wrote on 08/18/11 at 08:04:21:
I'll post a game I played in this line in 2009: I gained an easy draw vs a grandmaster rated 100 points higher than mine. I simply forgot what Delchev said about 16.Qd2...



during the game i was worried about 19. Rfd1 (or Rad1) instead of 19. Bf3 and it's not easy to play d6. we concluded that white retains an small edge (at least). After 19. Bf3 it seems that black equalizes quite easy.


Thanks for posting the game.

17...Bb4 is the usual move, but hasn't scored too well. This may be more a result of the rating difference than the move itself.
  

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Re: Main Line Taimanov
Reply #21 - 08/18/11 at 08:04:21
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I'll post a game I played in this line in 2009: I gained an easy draw vs a grandmaster rated 100 points higher than mine. I simply forgot what Delchev said about 16.Qd2...



during the game i was worried about 19. Rfd1 (or Rad1) instead of 19. Bf3 and it's not easy to play d6. we concluded that white retains an small edge (at least). After 19. Bf3 it seems that black equalizes quite easy.
  
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Re: Main Line Taimanov
Reply #20 - 08/17/11 at 20:31:00
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Vidit wrote on 07/15/11 at 17:05:50:
After 13.Bd4 0-0 is it possible to hold the position rather than commit with e5 for ef 14.Qd3!?


Further research:

Yes.  Three moves have then been tried for Black: 14...c5, 14...a5, and 14...Qc7.

Anand chose the latter in Linares (2002, against Shirov's 14. Qd3).  The game continued 15 b3 a5 16 Rd1 d5 17 exd5 Nxd5, and Black was clearly worse, managing to draw two pawns down in an OCB ending.  14...a5 actually has a plus score for black both in my database and on Chesslive.de; think of that what you will (it does appear to be the most neutral response to the threat to the a-pawn).

I guess the question for a player of the White pieces is "What do you think you gain by delaying/omitting e4-e5?"  Maybe the idea should be to get c2-c4 followed by e4-e5, to prevent the Black knight from becoming active/exchanging itself by Nd5-f4xe2 (as happened in my game).
  
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Re: Main Line Taimanov
Reply #19 - 07/15/11 at 20:30:28
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Yes, I believe it is.  However, I'm not sure it is to White's advantage to do so; the Queen doesn't necessarily belong on d3 after e4-e5, and if White doesn't play that move soon, then Black will play d7-d5 which has to be a good move (with the pawns on e4 and c6 still intact) anytime it doesn't fail for tactical reasons.

For THAT reason, I think Black should strive to avoid c6-c5, even at the cost of permitting White free reign in the center.  The pawn structure c5-d6-e6-f7 looks solid, but White's ability to play e4-e5 pretty much ruins the fun, anytime Black has a piece on f6 (which is an important square for pieces in a position where Black is cramped for squares).
  
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Re: Main Line Taimanov
Reply #18 - 07/15/11 at 17:05:50
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After 13.Bd4 0-0 is it possible to hold the position rather than commit with e5 for ef 14.Qd3!?
  

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Re: Main Line Taimanov
Reply #17 - 07/15/11 at 15:59:40
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13.Bd4 O-O 14.e5 Nd5 15.c4 Nf4 16.g3 Nxe2+ 17.Qxe2 f6 18.Rad1 fxe5 19.Bxe5 Rb7 20.f4 a5 21.Kg2 Rf7 22.Rf2 Qe8 23.Qc2 Qa8 24.Rfd2 Qa7 25.Rd3 a4 26.R1d2 Bb4 27.Re2 Be7 28.Qd1 Qa6 29.Rc2 Qa7 30.Rcd2 Bb4 31.Rf2 Bc5 32.Re2 Qa6 33.Rc2 Qa7 34.h3 Be7 35.Rcd2 Bb4 36.Re2 Bc5 37.Qc2 Be7 1/2-1/2

Taking this as a template:

White can also play 16 Qd2 Nxe2 17 Qxe2, which may be an improvement as the light squares aren't weakened, but it's hard to imagine this is a big deal.  Before that, 15. Qd2 is an idea borrowed from the current discussion of 13...Qc7, keeping the knight off f4 and the light squared bishop safe.  Then ...Bb4 doesn't work because White has yet to weaken c3, so maybe this is the time for ...f6, e.g. 15...f6 16 exf6 Nxf6, 16 c4 fxe5...
  
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Re: Main Line Taimanov
Reply #16 - 07/15/11 at 10:48:15
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fling wrote on 07/15/11 at 08:12:25:
gewgaw wrote on 07/14/11 at 20:46:55:
It´s strange, Delchev mentions the move 16. Qd2!? 0-0 17.c4 and writes but the zwischenzug  17. ..Bb4 will spoil white´s plan, because he will lose contact either with f4 or c2. and goes on to analyse 18.Qc2 and 18.Qg5, but when you look at the board 18.Qc1 would be my first thought to controll both crucial squares.
After 16.Qd2 a4 17.c4 Nb4 18.ba4 looks odd, but it´s not so easy to regain the pawn due to some tactics like 18. ...0-0 19.Rfd1 c5 20.Bc3 Rfd8 21.Bf3 Qa7 22.a5 and Black is suffering.
16.Qd2 Bb4! seems best, but I wouldn´t have found it otb.


I agree on this. Delchev's lines seem fine for Black, but 18. Qc1 suggests itself as you say, since it controls f4 and c2!

I feel that Black is wasting some time with the knight in the line given by Vidit. is ...Nf5 really necessary following 19. c5!?



White is threatening to play a3 and trap the piece,so Nf5 seems natural.I think there are few problems is 13..Qc7 line.13..0-0 seems interesting and will need some analysis.I will analyse it soon.
  

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Re: Main Line Taimanov
Reply #15 - 07/15/11 at 09:21:49
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Just wondering, have the taimanov players found an antidote to the lines given in "the cutting edge" ?
  

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Re: Main Line Taimanov
Reply #14 - 07/15/11 at 08:12:25
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gewgaw wrote on 07/14/11 at 20:46:55:
It´s strange, Delchev mentions the move 16. Qd2!? 0-0 17.c4 and writes but the zwischenzug  17. ..Bb4 will spoil white´s plan, because he will lose contact either with f4 or c2. and goes on to analyse 18.Qc2 and 18.Qg5, but when you look at the board 18.Qc1 would be my first thought to controll both crucial squares.
After 16.Qd2 a4 17.c4 Nb4 18.ba4 looks odd, but it´s not so easy to regain the pawn due to some tactics like 18. ...0-0 19.Rfd1 c5 20.Bc3 Rfd8 21.Bf3 Qa7 22.a5 and Black is suffering.
16.Qd2 Bb4! seems best, but I wouldn´t have found it otb.


I agree on this. Delchev's lines seem fine for Black, but 18. Qc1 suggests itself as you say, since it controls f4 and c2!

I feel that Black is wasting some time with the knight in the line given by Vidit. is ...Nf5 really necessary following 19. c5!?
  
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Re: Main Line Taimanov
Reply #13 - 07/15/11 at 05:18:28
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Draw...

[Event "XXXXX"]
[Site "XXXXXX"]
[Date "2011.06.21"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Opponent"]
[Black "Cridland,G"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nc6 5.Nc3 Qc7 6.Be2 a6 7.O-O Nf6 8.Be3 Bb4 9.Na4 Be7 10.Nxc6 bxc6 11.Nb6 Rb8 12.Nxc8 Qxc8 13.Bd4 O-O 14.e5 Nd5 15.c4 Nf4 16.g3 Nxe2+ 17.Qxe2 f6 18.Rad1 fxe5 19.Bxe5 Rb7 20.f4 a5 21.Kg2 Rf7 22.Rf2 Qe8 23.Qc2 Qa8 24.Rfd2 Qa7 25.Rd3 a4 26.R1d2 Bb4 27.Re2 Be7 28.Qd1 Qa6 29.Rc2 Qa7 30.Rcd2 Bb4 31.Rf2 Bc5 32.Re2 Qa6 33.Rc2 Qa7 34.h3 Be7 35.Rcd2 Bb4 36.Re2 Bc5 37.Qc2 Be7 1/2-1/2

Analysis to come.  Just got to move 25 and then died.  We shuffled around a bit and called it a day.
  
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Re: Main Line Taimanov
Reply #12 - 07/14/11 at 20:46:55
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It´s strange, Delchev mentions the move 16. Qd2!? 0-0 17.c4 and writes but the zwischenzug  17. ..Bb4 will spoil white´s plan, because he will lose contact either with f4 or c2. and goes on to analyse 18.Qc2 and 18.Qg5, but when you look at the board 18.Qc1 would be my first thought to controll both crucial squares.
After 16.Qd2 a4 17.c4 Nb4 18.ba4 looks odd, but it´s not so easy to regain the pawn due to some tactics like 18. ...0-0 19.Rfd1 c5 20.Bc3 Rfd8 21.Bf3 Qa7 22.a5 and Black is suffering.
16.Qd2 Bb4! seems best, but I wouldn´t have found it otb.
  

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Re: Main Line Taimanov
Reply #11 - 07/14/11 at 18:25:49
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Thanks for weighing in everybody!

My game in the line with 13...0-0 may be petering out to a draw; I'll have a lot of analysis on that line if so.

On 13...Qc7  14.e5 Nd5 15.b3!? a5 16.Qd2-

I agree 16. Qd2 is probably best, and that the reason for this is to avoid the exchange or misplacement of the Be2 after Nd5-f4.  White's Bd4 is pretty and important, but it isn't going to win the game by itself.  Black is uncomfortable, and (this is something I looked at) might rather have ...0-0 in than ...Qc7.

16...Bb4 may have the corrs blessings, but it looks wrong.  It's unfortunate that Qd2 hits that a5-pawn.  Can we play 16...a4 17 bxa4 Rb4?  I'm not on the right computer for analysis.

In the other line, I don't like permitting all the pawn advances; I don't think letting the a4 pawn be fixed rather than exchanged is a good idea generally.
  
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