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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Scandinavian Portuguese...again!? (Read 112768 times)
Bibs
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #119 - 11/14/15 at 05:29:05
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Bump!
Further reactions to this book...?
  
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RoleyPoley
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #118 - 10/10/15 at 20:07:49
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smurfo wrote on 10/01/15 at 13:56:02:
Hi guys. Very interesting to hear your reactions to the book!

As I mention in it, I suspect the correspondence refutation is objectively just that: a refutation. However, I couldn't quite find the win for White in analysis, and no-one's ever played it against me. When I ran my 'laboratory experiments' getting club players to play blitz matches against each other in this line, Black always came out on top; as mentioned, it's hard for White to keep the position together after making so many pawn moves.

As for Seeley's good comment, the enterprising and courageous player can deal with the 'boring' lines by playing 'The Elbow' against 3.d4 and meeting 3.Bb5+ with 3...Bd7 followed by ...c6, as mentioned above. I think against 2500+ GMs I would probably not do this and just take boring equality, but don't hold that against me Smiley


I probably wont be able to contribute to the discussion around the theory for quite a while given my being a weak player.

Like the rest of the series so far, the layout of the book (I've got Houska's Caro Kann book and Williams' on the Dutch) has been in my opinion very user friendly. David in his introduction  provides a steer for noobs like myself on how we can make best use of it. Each chapter is well written and provides a useful explanation of the themes of the line being looked at and follows it up with a theory section.

I'm only just starting the second chapter, but i'm really looking forward to playing this opening. I find the authors words quite encouraging.


  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #117 - 10/10/15 at 10:00:43
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This thread dropped to the end for no apparent reason, I will have to try and sort this problem out sometime! Angry
  
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #116 - 10/01/15 at 13:56:02
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Hi guys. Very interesting to hear your reactions to the book!

As I mention in it, I suspect the correspondence refutation is objectively just that: a refutation. However, I couldn't quite find the win for White in analysis, and no-one's ever played it against me. When I ran my 'laboratory experiments' getting club players to play blitz matches against each other in this line, Black always came out on top; as mentioned, it's hard for White to keep the position together after making so many pawn moves.

As for Seeley's good comment, the enterprising and courageous player can deal with the 'boring' lines by playing 'The Elbow' against 3.d4 and meeting 3.Bb5+ with 3...Bd7 followed by ...c6, as mentioned above. I think against 2500+ GMs I would probably not do this and just take boring equality, but don't hold that against me Smiley
« Last Edit: 10/10/15 at 09:59:13 by GMTonyKosten »  
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #115 - 09/25/15 at 15:50:56
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Not that it counts for much, but I'd find it hard to believe even on general terms that the opening will be refuted by only moving pawns various times and developing the queen first. That's exactly what the Portugese player is hoping for - that you take all their pawns and forget to develop your pieces so they can mate you.

The most testing responses (with f3/g4 or h3/g4, depending on whether you played 3.d4 or 3.Nf3) do play against Black's light-squared bishop, but also allow for reasonably fast development.
  

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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #114 - 09/24/15 at 22:45:11
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Menake Halonot wrote on 09/24/15 at 16:46:34:
Templare2 wrote on 09/23/15 at 22:12:36:
In "The Correspendence refutation" Smerdon says 7 Qb3?! , c5.

But ( instead of 8 Qxb7) 8. h4 is better and I think that Black is struggling to prove any compensation.


after 8...exd5 it seems unclear, and I don't think "Black is struggling to prove any compensation."
A possible line:



In this line 11 Bf4 might be more testing.
But what exactly is wrong with just answering 8 h4 with 8...h6?

In my view Smerdon's book is everything you could hope for about this admittedly rather dodgy opening. He doesn't hide the problems and he provides reasoned arguments as well as variations where he thinks there is compensation that other sources (and in some cases the engines) have overlooked.

All in all, it seems to me to be a very practical book, written for humans, or more exactly humans who want to play that type of chess.
  
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Menake Halonot
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #113 - 09/24/15 at 16:46:34
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Templare2 wrote on 09/23/15 at 22:12:36:
In "The Correspendence refutation" Smerdon says 7 Qb3?! , c5.

But ( instead of 8 Qxb7) 8. h4 is better and I think that Black is struggling to prove any compensation.


after 8...exd5 it seems unclear, and I don't think "Black is struggling to prove any compensation."
A possible line:

  
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #112 - 09/23/15 at 22:12:36
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In "The Correspendence refutation" Smerdon says 7 Qb3?! , c5.

But ( instead of 8 Qxb7) 8. h4 is better and I think that Black is struggling to prove any compensation.
  

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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #111 - 09/21/15 at 21:28:06
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Thanks for that helpful review, tipau. I thought about buying this book and it was the sort of lines you concentrate on that caused me to hesitate.

tipau wrote on 09/20/15 at 12:36:45:
My comments above perhaps don't do it full justice, as I look at the boring options and not cool stuff

Actually, I think you've focused on exactly the right places: the 'boring options' are precisely where a repertoire like this is liable to fall down. I'd suppose that most players who are willing to adopt lines like these would be quite happy to end up in some sort of unclear mess, but if White has a simple, solid, unco-operative way of spoiling Black's fun, then the whole repertoire becomes much less appealing.
  
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #110 - 09/20/15 at 12:36:45
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I have both paper and kindle versions - I got inpatient waiting for the postman and bought an electronic version for a long train ride Smiley

I have a lot of thoughts on the book, so this post might be lengthy Wink I guess I'm not a typical reader as I love the Portugeese gambit like no other opening - it makes me nostalgic for my teenage years when I played over 100 games a year and answered 1.e4 this way almost exclusively.

Firstly, it's clear that GM Smerdon loves the opening just as much as me! This comes across in the book very well and the enthusiasm makes me want to play it again even more. The book is packed full of fresh and interesting ideas in almost every variation, especially in the more funky lines were White accepts any offered material. Perhaps it's unfair, but I was basically expecting that. The lack of attention to the opening from theory meant that there were (and still are I'm sure) lots of hidden treasures to be found. What I was initially most interested in was how the most annoying 'kill-joy' lines were handled. In particular, after 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6:

A) 3.d4 Bg4 4.Bb5+ Nbd7 5.Be2
B) 3.Nf3 Bg4 4.Bb5+ Nbd7 5.h3 Bh5 6.Nc3
C) 3.Bb5+ Bd7 4.Be2

For me, the decision whether to pick this line back up entirely depends on being happy against such lines.

Against lines A and B I think it's clear that White is for choice and has a pull. In both cases GM Smerdon emphasises that
1) += is still a draw with best play and;
2) += doesn't mean that Black can't outplay White and later win.
These points are true (and examples of play are given to help Black players get a feel for how to defend and spot typical errors) but what's also true is that if I got into those lines then I'd wish I'd played something else  Grin

In line A I really liked the coverage of the alternative 4...c6!? and also the nickname 'The Elbow'. In fact there are quite a few fun names being handed out to different lines Grin



I did investigate this line years ago but I must admit that I did it with my mind already made up against it  Smiley Having looked in more detail with GM Smerdon's analysis it's looks a lot more interesting than I remember!

Line B (3.Nf3) is less of a concern to me. I'd rather transpose to another Scandinavian line than go 3...Bg4 as I have some experience in other lines:




In Line C with 3.Bb5+ GM Smerdon likes 3...Nbd7!? I agree that Black is OK there, although 3...Bd7 will probably remain my preference and he analyses a nice gambit idea there. I guess a player's preference depends on whether he prefers to face 3...Bd7 4.Be2 or 3...Nbd7 4.Nf3 Nxd5 5.d4 as in both cases Black is playing for equality:




In most lines there are lots of alternative approaches and ideas for Black. It's clear GM Smerdon has made a big effort to be as thorough as possible. Just one example:




The only exception to this thorough approach that I've seen so far is with 2.Nc3. Here the most ambitious approach 2...d4!? 3.Nce2 e5 is recommended but I think that a lot of White's most interesting ideas aren't mentioned:




Overall I really, really like this book  Grin My comments above perhaps don't do it full justice, as I look at the boring options and not cool stuff like 3.d4 Bg4 4.f3 Bf5 5.c4 e6 6.dxe6 Nc6! and 5.Bb5+ Nbd7 6.c4 (both are more common than 4.Bb5+ in practice) or more normal lines like 3.d4 Bg4 4.Be2 and 4.Nf3. Those are all covered really well IMO and give nice ideas that you have very good chances to use directly in your games.

Thanks smurfo  Grin
  

FIDE: ~2100
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RoleyPoley
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #109 - 09/09/15 at 22:05:21
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Got my copy. Havent had time to read it though from a quick glance i'm liking the lay out.
  

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Victor Bologan.
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #108 - 09/07/15 at 19:29:18
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Ordered mine too  Wink
  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

Victor Bologan.
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #107 - 09/07/15 at 09:31:33
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Ordered it today via Niggemann. Hope it arrives on my birthday (11-9)

Cheesy
  
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RoleyPoley
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #106 - 09/06/15 at 22:13:10
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Looks really good. The sort of book i was hoping for. Cant wait to get my hands on a copy. Smiley
  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

Victor Bologan.
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #105 - 09/06/15 at 20:04:11
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I hope An Open Letter to Scandinavia and Portugal won't follow too soon   Smiley
  
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