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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Scandinavian Portuguese...again!? (Read 113830 times)
fling
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #134 - 12/23/19 at 13:26:26
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tp2205 wrote on 12/23/19 at 06:56:16:
MNb wrote on 12/22/19 at 16:30:24:
Some lines I don't like as Black: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 4.f3 Bf5 5.g4 Bg6 6.c4 e6 7.Nc3 (or 7.g5 first) exd5 8.g5
a) 8...Ng8 9.Qe2+ Ne7/Be7 10.cxd5.
b) 8...Nfd7 9.Nxd5 Nc6 10.h4 Nb6 11.Qe2+ Be7 12.Nxe7 Nxd4 13.Nc6+ Nxe2 14.Nxd8 Nxg1 (compare the Boyko game given by Vass on page 1 or 2) 15.Rxg1 and White is playing for a win without any risk thanks to the two bishops;
c) 8...Nh5 9.f4 Nc6 10.f5 Bxf5 11.cxd5 Nb4 12.Qxh5 Nc2+ 13.Kf2 Nxa1 14.Bb5+ Bd7 Rodriguez-Ruiz, corr 2016, 15.Qe2+ B e7 16.Bf4 O-O 17.Nf3.

Any thoughts?

No deep insights unfortunately.
Line a+b I completely agree but facing line c over the board after 17...f6 may not be so easy. Both 18. g6 hxg6 19.Bd3 and 18.Bxc7 Qxc7 19.Qxe7 Rf7 20.d6 Qxc3 21.bxc3 Rxe7 22.gxf6 gxf6 23.Bc4+ seem to give White an edge (or more). But I would probably go astray somewhere as White. So as the occasional surprise weapon (e.g. in rapid) it may still be ok.



Yes, 17...f6 seems like a good practical chance OTB.

But I think White can improve on this line with 15. Bd3 (instead of 15. Qe2+). E.g. 15...g6 16. Qh4 and it seems like Black is having a tough time justifying the piece sac.

Also, on move 10, White has Smeardon's recommendation of 10. Be2, although this line might allow Black to muddy the waters a bit more, at least OTB.
  
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #133 - 12/23/19 at 06:56:16
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MNb wrote on 12/22/19 at 16:30:24:
Some lines I don't like as Black: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 4.f3 Bf5 5.g4 Bg6 6.c4 e6 7.Nc3 (or 7.g5 first) exd5 8.g5
a) 8...Ng8 9.Qe2+ Ne7/Be7 10.cxd5.
b) 8...Nfd7 9.Nxd5 Nc6 10.h4 Nb6 11.Qe2+ Be7 12.Nxe7 Nxd4 13.Nc6+ Nxe2 14.Nxd8 Nxg1 (compare the Boyko game given by Vass on page 1 or 2) 15.Rxg1 and White is playing for a win without any risk thanks to the two bishops;
c) 8...Nh5 9.f4 Nc6 10.f5 Bxf5 11.cxd5 Nb4 12.Qxh5 Nc2+ 13.Kf2 Nxa1 14.Bb5+ Bd7 Rodriguez-Ruiz, corr 2016, 15.Qe2+ B e7 16.Bf4 O-O 17.Nf3.

Any thoughts?

No deep insights unfortunately.
Line a+b I completely agree but facing line c over the board after 17...f6 may not be so easy. Both 18. g6 hxg6 19.Bd3 and 18.Bxc7 Qxc7 19.Qxe7 Rf7 20.d6 Qxc3 21.bxc3 Rxe7 22.gxf6 gxf6 23.Bc4+ seem to give White an edge (or more). But I would probably go astray somewhere as White. So as the occasional surprise weapon (e.g. in rapid) it may still be ok.


  
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #132 - 12/22/19 at 16:30:24
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Some lines I don't like as Black: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 4.f3 Bf5 5.g4 Bg6 6.c4 e6 7.Nc3 (or 7.g5 first) exd5 8.g5
a) 8...Ng8 9.Qe2+ Ne7/Be7 10.cxd5.
b) 8...Nfd7 9.Nxd5 Nc6 10.h4 Nb6 11.Qe2+ Be7 12.Nxe7 Nxd4 13.Nc6+ Nxe2 14.Nxd8 Nxg1 (compare the Boyko game given by Vass on page 1 or 2) 15.Rxg1 and White is playing for a win without any risk thanks to the two bishops;
c) 8...Nh5 9.f4 Nc6 10.f5 Bxf5 11.cxd5 Nb4 12.Qxh5 Nc2+ 13.Kf2 Nxa1 14.Bb5+ Bd7 Rodriguez-Ruiz, corr 2016, 15.Qe2+ B e7 16.Bf4 O-O 17.Nf3.

Any thoughts?
  

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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #131 - 01/06/16 at 10:54:36
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Thanks for the reply, smurfo!

I guess you're right, if we dig deep we will find a white advantage in some places where it is not really expected.
Of course it is annoying that it happens in lines such as the Wuss, where white does not deserve to be better  Wink

So the most practical approach might be to play the direct attacking moves (like Rg8 in the line above), and do some grovelling in the unlikely case white digs something up.
If we play too cautiously, then White's better central control will be the main factor in the position.
  
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #130 - 01/06/16 at 02:24:50
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Yes, you could be right. I think if we do deeper into these lines, it's probably going to show that White's position is more pleasant with accurate play. But in all my practice, I've never encountered the position after move ten! My gut tells me that this line is not a serious attempt at a bust, and generally when White plays the Wuss, they're not coming armed with serious preparation. This is not a very scientific answer, I admit Smiley
  
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #129 - 12/27/15 at 00:52:31
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Thanks for replying Smurfo, I thought your Kb8 suggestion might be with the idea of Rhe8 in one go after d5 alright, and not losing a tempo by playing to g8 first but I am still not convinced.

In the line you suggest after 10..Kb8 11.d5 exd5 12cxd5 Nb4 13.Bg5 Bd6 14.Rd4 Rhe8 15.Qc4 Qg6  why not 16Bxf6! gxf6 (if 16...Qxf6 17Ne4 wins the exchange)  and 17.Nb5 still looks annoying. If black has to play 17...Na6 here, his position doesnt look much fun

Maybe 10...Rg8 is ok as if white doesnt play d5 black has the standard attack with g5 without having wasted a move on kb8 and if white does play 11.d5 exd5 12.cxd5 Nb4 13.Bg5 Bd6 14.Rd4 maybe now 14..Kb8!? is ok
  
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #128 - 12/26/15 at 22:11:18
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Hi all. My point is that I wanted to meet the d5 plan with 14.Rd4 Rh(or g!)e8. So I would rather get the move Kb8 in 'for free', as it were. And it makes a difference, because with 10...Rh8 (i.e. king still on c8), White has 15.Qc4 threatening Nb5. Then for example 15...Nc2 16.Bxf6! gf 17.Rh4 is winning for White, while with Black's king already on b8, Black can play ...Qg6 here and with Nb5 not a real threat, Black has a playable position.

I'm not saying this is the whole story (or even that I know the whole story!), but I hope this line demonstrates why Kb8 can be useful against a d5 plan.
  
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #127 - 12/07/15 at 22:25:57
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In my opinion 10. ... Rg8 is better than 10. ... Kb8, of which I don't see the purpose. The king is slightly better there, but it does nothing to deter the d5-plan.

So I also don't get it.
Maybe the author could enlighten us?  Wink
  
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #126 - 12/07/15 at 20:22:21
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I have a specific question about GM Smerdons book. I face the Wuss fairly regularly and in his notes to game 8 the author suggests 10..Kb8 as an improvement instead of 10..Rg8 saying that it avoids 11.d5 exd5 12cxd5 Nb4 13Bg5! Bd6 14.Rd4 however I dont see how it does. White can play this way anyway and by inserting 10...Kb8 it seems like black is giving white extra options eg. 11Bg5. Am I missing something?
  
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #125 - 11/14/15 at 18:12:08
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Bibs wrote on 11/14/15 at 14:32:34:
If I buy via the app (I have dozens upon dozens), is it possible to get the Cbv version on top, do you know?

B

I am pretty sure you can get it that way, but I think I have seen it mentioned somewhere (or maybe in an email conversation) that it is easier to buy via the home page. It kinda makes sense too.
  
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #124 - 11/14/15 at 17:57:23
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I bought the book mainly for nostalgic reasons b/c this opening was my main choice from 2005-2009 (rating progress: beginner to 2000+ uscf).  Regardless of an opening's merit, it is a special event when the world's preeminent practitioner publishes a treatise.  Morozevich and Tiger Hillarp Persson  come to mind as "maverick" practitioners who published well-received works notwithstanding the dubious reputations of their subject matter-- Chigorin QGD and Modern.

I agree the book feels huge and bulky due to the white space and single-column format.  Normally I prefer white space to write pencil notes, but not when the book could substitute for a piece of masonry.  I feel the mass of the book is also caused by the many alternative options for Black that enhance the opening's replay value, which is a key consideration due to lack of real strategic flexibility for Black.  (That is the price of defining the central pawn structure on move 1.)  For those who prefer e-books, obviously the mass of the physical book is irrelevant.

Smerdon's prose is snappy and entertaining.  Basically, it is hard to imagine a better book about the subject matter.  Yes, you get active pieces, but limited pawn play and virtually no strategic flexibility.  Resorting to Rg8 and g5 stuff never felt very convincing to me when White had pawns abreast at d4 and c4.  I always felt like I was playing for "cheapo" tactics from an optically worse position, which I feel is the mindset needed to play stuff like these Scandinavian gambits (or the Chigorin or Tiger's Modern, for that matter).  The standard for chess opening books is ridiculous nowadays: the equivalent of Oxford professors write technical works of 300+ pages from scratch for a hobbyist audience at pulp fiction prices.
  

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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #123 - 11/14/15 at 14:32:34
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Sorry, me again. Apologies for being maybe a bit stupid here.
If I buy via the app (I have dozens upon dozens), is it possible to get the Cbv version on top, do you know?

Thanks, and sorry for being probably a bit thick on this.
B
  
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #122 - 11/14/15 at 14:08:24
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You have to purchase (and pay  Wink) it seperately - then you get it in four formats. It´s not part of the hard copy  Sad
  
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Bibs
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #121 - 11/14/15 at 13:08:17
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I didn't know that at all. That would be really handy.
I bought hard copy. How to get e-version of it?
Thanks in advance for advising,
B
  
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #120 - 11/14/15 at 12:43:39
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I don't have an opinion on the quality of the chess content yet (although the lines look like a lot of fun and I'm going to try them out at least), but I want to mention here that I love what Everyman is currently doing with their new ebooks: instead of having to choose, you get it in four formats -- Kindle, ePub, CBV and PGN.

So I can read the book on my Kindle, and import the PGN into my database so I can work with it there (play through the lines, add my own, whatever I want).

I think this is completely awesome.
  
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