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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Scandinavian Portuguese...again!? (Read 113959 times)
MNb
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #44 - 11/07/11 at 16:03:07
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And 11...Nc6!? is more ambitious than 11...Re8. A sample line is 12.exf7+ Rxf7 13.O-O Rd8 14.Rfe1 Nh5 15.Qe6 Qxe6 16.Rxe6 Nf4 17.Re3 Nd3 and Black will have two very active Knights (the other will possibly go to c2 via b4).
10.O-O Nbd7 and Black can afford castling Queenside, which is more interesting than the lines we discussed above.
  

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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #43 - 11/07/11 at 11:50:13
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9...Qf5! is better than 9...Qd6, of course..  Wink
  
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MNb
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #42 - 11/05/11 at 21:47:45
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After reading that column I asked FM Galore by em-mail a way out of my dilemma:

MNb wrote on 10/07/11 at 21:48:04:
No, but if I play a sharp move like 3...Bg4 I don't expect to get a boring version of the Caro-Kann either.


The game Wedberg-Hodgson, Harplinge 1998 looks interesting. A Chessbase note (Wedberg or Karsten Müller?)  is 7.c4 (Wedberg played 7.O-O first, when the Queen can go to h5 later) Bb4+ (Qh5 8.Nc3 Nc6 9.d5 and 8...Bd6 9.c5 is not what I want) 8.Bd2 (Black doesn't have seem to have problems after 8.Nbd2 and 8.Nc3) Bxd2+ 9.Nbxd2 Qd6 10.d5 O-O ending +=. But this idea seems to be stronger with 9...Qf5. Black claims that the exchange of the other Bishops improves compared to Leko-Damaso, Olympiade 1996, though 11.dxe6 Re8 also is reasonable. After just 10.O-O Nbd7 Black can castle Queenside.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Vass
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #41 - 10/28/11 at 13:43:25
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Alias wrote on 10/28/11 at 07:26:26:

A kind of overview but nothing new under the sky.  Wink
  
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #40 - 10/28/11 at 07:26:26
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Don't check me with no lightweight stuff.
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #39 - 10/21/11 at 21:20:00
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Well..well..well!  Smiley
@CaptainFuture - Hi, Robert! I'm glad to hear from you...here, on this forum.. As you already know ..I appreciate your braveness with this c6!? gambit in the abovementioned game of yours.. A setup far from theory (and soundness  Wink maybe) as long as I know..
Anyway, in the game you published in your post...I wonder why you played this 7...Bb4 (btw, Selby Anderson in his Center Counter, the Portuguese variation, 1997, says about it "This natural developing move has been the main line."  Wink ). And James Plaskett in his Scandinavian Defence book (2004) states: "The usual treatment. Black hurries his pieces out into the world. <inserts a diagram...and continues> After some early spectacular successes, I must say that it is not clear to me that this is definitely Black's best option."... And from all the options that he previously gives in his book my choice has always been for the strange looking and somehow unnatural 7...Qe7!? (Of course, I play 7....Nb4!? 8.Na3 Qe7!?, too..) And here I wonder why you chose 7...Bb4 (to give your proud bishop for such an animal as this one on c3  Shocked ) when even 7...fxe6!? and Qd8-d7 next..looks better, imho..
As for 7...Bb4 variation - what to say?! Your opponent's 9.a3 is a good try (Grischuk in 1996 when he was only 2375 ELO rated played it too against Michael Chow at Cala Galdana, Spain) ...trying to emphasize on your Bb4-adventure. While John Emms in his The Scandinavian (2004), 2nd edition (2006) gives a !-mark to another move for white - 9.Bd3.. (Maybe influenced by John Roush/Mark Lance/Mike Cornell's judgement for this one in their Scandinavian Defence, Portuguese Variation, 1998.) Then you obviously went for 10...0-0-0 which seems to be a novelty (I don't have my corr. database on my laptop right now..to be sure), but not successful as it seems. Instead, Guy West (Australia, 2405) in his game with Maher Himdan (Egypt, 2365) played the simple 10...0-0 (yes, Djy!) at Elista, Olympiad 1998 about which game Plaskett simply says "..although white managed to draw."  Cool
  
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CaptainFuture
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #38 - 10/21/11 at 19:21:46
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Hello Djy,

thanks for your quick reply and your cool idea! Wink
Although in the portuguese variation the black side normaly aims for long castling, 10...0-0 seems to be fully playable and i found no hole in your analysis.

Kind Regards,
Robert
  
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #37 - 10/21/11 at 17:59:38
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I Robert!
With 2450 you 're ahead of me so i give some variations without commentary. I have'nt check the game yet . But the first idea (just a few minute of analyse) is for 10....0-0 the column f look more sensible than the d one and the king safer.


[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Portugaise 5.c4!?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "B01"]
[Annotator "Dji"]
[PlyCount "44"]

1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Nf6 3. d4 Bg4 4. f3 Bf5 5. c4  e6  6. dxe6 Nc6  7. Be3
Bb4+ 8. Nc3 Qe7 9. a3 Bxc3+ 10. bxc3 O-O 11. d5 Na5 12. g4 (12. Bf4 fxe6 13.
d6 Qf7 14. dxc7 e5 15. Bxe5 Rae8 16. f4 Ng4) (12. Qa4 b6 13. g4 (13. Ne2 fxe6
14. Nd4 Bg4 (14... Nd7) (14... Rae8 15. O-O-O Nd7) 15. fxg4 exd5 (15... Nxg4
16. Bg1 exd5+ 17. Be2 Ne3  (17... c5))) 13... Nxg4) 12... Nxg4 13. fxg4 Be4
14. Nf3 fxe6 15. Bg2 Bxf3 (15... Nxc4 16. d6 Qf6 17. Bd4 Bxf3 18. Bxf6 Bxd1 19.
Be7 Bxg4 20. Bxf8 Rxf8 21. dxc7 Rc8 22. Bxb7 Rxc7 23. Ba6) 16. Bxf3 Qh4+ 17.
Ke2 (17. Bf2 Qf6 18. O-O Qxf3 19. Qxf3 Rxf3 20. dxe6 Re8 21. Rad1 Nxc4 22. Rd7
Rxe6) 17... Rxf3 18. Kxf3 Qh3+ 19. Ke2 Qg2+ 20. Bf2 Rf8 21. Rf1 Nxc4 22. Ke1
Ne3 *

  Perputuel check at the moment but to be continued!!! 
  

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La victoire est brillante mais l'échec est mat!  Coluche
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CaptainFuture
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #36 - 10/21/11 at 13:37:47
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Hello Vass,

first let me thank you for your interesting thoughts on the portuguese variation.  Wink
In fact you did quote a corr game of mine!  Smiley
I was the black player in the game Boronowskis, Peter - Bauer, Robert, 0-1 (50), 2006 that you quoted in reply  #17 above. Now i have a ICCF rating of ~2450.
I got a good score with that opening but one defeat was very crushing:



May be you have some ideas on that variation too. Where can blacks play be improved?   Huh

Kind regards,
Robert
  
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MNb
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #35 - 10/07/11 at 21:48:04
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No, but if I play a sharp move like 3...Bg4 I don't expect to get a boring version of the Caro-Kann either.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Vass
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #34 - 10/07/11 at 12:42:43
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MNb wrote on 10/07/11 at 10:21:02:
Djy wrote on 10/07/11 at 08:17:26:
1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 4.Be2 Bxe2 5.Qxe2 Qxd5 6.Nf3
I think in this line the solid 6.-e6 is better than the 'active' 6.-Nc6 .Probably white is still a tiny better but not much as in the 6.-Nc6 line. In practice the results are ok

Yeah, but play is not very exciting either.

Well, we don't expect to checkmate our opponent in every game.  Wink
  
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MNb
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #33 - 10/07/11 at 10:21:02
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Djy wrote on 10/07/11 at 08:17:26:
1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 4.Be2 Bxe2 5.Qxe2 Qxd5 6.Nf3
I think in this line the solid 6.-e6 is better than the 'active' 6.-Nc6 .Probably white is still a tiny better but not much as in the 6.-Nc6 line. In practice the results are ok

Yeah, but play is not very exciting either.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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Djy
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #32 - 10/07/11 at 08:17:26
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1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 4.Be2 Bxe2 5.Qxe2 Qxd5 6.Nf3
I think in this line the solid 6.-e6 is better than the 'active' 6.-Nc6 .Probably white is still a tiny better but not much as in the 6.-Nc6 line. In practice the results are ok

1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 4.Be2 Bxe2 5.Qxe2 Qxd5 6.Nf3 e6 7.0-0 Nc6 8.Rd1 0-0-0 9.c4 and here Qf5 is iteresting 10.Nc3 (10.a3 g5!?) h6 11.Be3 g5 and it's difficult to say anything without a deep analyse
  

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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #31 - 10/07/11 at 08:12:21
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Vass wrote on 10/07/11 at 07:15:50:
OK, brabo! I fully agree with you. No fun for black here.. Playing for two results is never a pleasure. And as all the Scandinavian players know..when there's no viking axe - no win!.. So, let's turn to the main line! What after 6...e6?

Well it has been from 2005 that I had a look at 6...e6 so I don't know how far I can still trust my old analysis. I always try to steer the game to the following keyposition:
1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 4.Be2 Bxe2 5.Qxe2 Qxd5 6.Nf3 e6 7.0-0 Nc6 8.Rd1 0-0-0 9.c4 Qh5 10.Nc3 Bd6 (Many transpositions are possible to get to this position and also quite some deviations exist of which only a few I studied a bit.) 11.c5 Be7 12.b4! with a very strong attack. I discovered this move in 2000 and tested it in OTB with success in 2005. I should once redo my old analysis if no improvements can be found on faster and better HW+SW.
  
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Vass
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Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #30 - 10/07/11 at 07:15:50
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OK, brabo! I fully agree with you. No fun for black here.. Playing for two results is never a pleasure. And as all the Scandinavian players know..when there's no viking axe - no win!.. So, let's turn to the main line! What after 6...e6?
  
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