(UTC)
Latest Updates:
  ChessPub Forum › Chess Publishing Openings › 1. e4 ... › Scandinavian › Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
(Moderators: proustiskeen, Hadron)
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 9
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Scandinavian Portuguese...again!? (Read 124285 times)
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #59 - 10/30/13 at 09:23:16
Post Tools
I am very curious about what Smerdon offers against the line given by Greet in his book on beating unusual defences to 1.e4, as this was the main continuation that put me off playing the Portugese in serious games.
  
All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Vass
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1105
Joined: 06/22/11
Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #58 - 10/30/13 at 08:30:44
Post Tools
Hi, GabrielGale!  Smiley
Thank you very much for this link and information about a forthcoming Scandinavian Portuguese book!
I very much appreciate the efforts of GM David Smerdon to write such a book. And I do share completely his view about this opening variation. It's a passion.., love.., thriller..and as he says: "...you are guaranteed to have a lot of fun, and will conclude the game in 30 moves either way."
"It's going to be the first honest opening book ever written..", he says, and I completely believe him.
Anyway, I went into the correspondence chess recently...which definitely made me go astray the Portuguese path. What is more, I even started playing sound openings in my OTB tries, probably influenced from the correspondence chess. But, no matter what - first love is first love!
Needless to say, that I'll be the first one to buy this book.
As for the analysis lines, I'll have to dig over my old notes.  Roll Eyes
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GabrielGale
Senior Member
****
Offline


Who was Thursday?

Posts: 471
Location: Sydney
Joined: 02/28/08
Gender: Male
Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #57 - 10/30/13 at 01:42:24
Post Tools
GabrielGale wrote on 06/30/11 at 07:20:52:
Dear Vass and Stefan,

Cannot offer any concrete analysis but thought I should point you to a fellow Aussie, GM David Smerdon, currently playing in the Commonwealth Chess Champs in SA (with GM Nigel Short and GM Gawain Jones et al). David was interviewed on a blog (here: http://commonwealthchess.blogspot.com/2011/06/day-3-of-commonwealth-dave-smerdon...) and this what he has to say about the Portugese Var:
Quote:
MER:- Any chess related book projects for you?
DS:- Possibly a book on the Portuguese variation of the Scandinavian (1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4)
I'm the strongest player in the world who plays it, not really because I am that strong but because no other grandmasters this strength would touch it. Its going to be the first honest opening book ever written, basically stating upfront that the variation is opening is rubbish, but you are guaranteed to have a lot of fun, and will conclude the game in 30 moves either way.


Maybe Stefan, you should get him to write for Kassiber ...... David is heading to Amsterdam in the near future to study fro a MA (Econs) and will be in Europe for a while yet. Check out the interview or David's own blog: http://www.davidsmerdon.com/


Dear All Portugese fans, an update of my own post.

GM David Smerdon has announced that he is contracted to write a book on the Gambit with Everyman Chess and as his story goes, after he defeated GM John Emms with the Gambit in a recent game in the 4NCL.
http://www.davidsmerdon.com/?p=1215
He annotates that game as well as a another recent rapid game which he says is a t5otally unknown line of the Gambit.

Perhaps we should start an analysis lines which we hope to see in the book and get a GM to consider it.
Any takers? Vass?
  
http://www.toutautre.blogspot.com/
A Year With Nessie ...... aka GM John Shaw's The King's Gambit (http://thekinggambit.blogspot.com.au/)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
tipau
Full Member
***
Offline


I Like ChessPublishing!

Posts: 172
Location: London, England
Joined: 01/25/08
Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #56 - 04/14/12 at 15:14:02
Post Tools
PANFR wrote on 03/28/12 at 19:38:45:
I cannot see how Black can achieve something remotely resembling equality after 3.Bb5+ Bd7 4.Be2 Nxd5 5.d4.
Now 5...b5 doesn't look like a serious move, and 5...Bf5 6.Nf3 e6 7.0-0 Nc6?! is bad due to 8.c4! Nb4 9.Nc3! when going after that a1 rook with 9...Nc2 loses to 10.d5 Nxa1 11.Qa4!
So, Black has to play something like 7...Be7 when besides the enterprising 8.c4!? Nb4 9.Nc3 Nc2 10.Rb1 Nb4 11.Be3 Bxb1 12.Qxb1 where white has terrific positional compensation for the exchange (although not necessarily enough to win in a correspondence game), he can also play routinely 8.a3 followed by c4 etc.
Where exactly Black is OK in these lines? Did I omit something critical?


I certainly think Black can at least fight for equality here. For example 7...Be7 8.a3 0-0 9.c4 Nb6 10.Nc3 Nc6 11.Be3 (11.h3 Bf6 12.Be2 is the same) 11...Bf6 12.h3!?
(this stops 12...Qe7 because of 13.g4! Bg6 14.g5 winning the piece. 13.b3 Qe7 and if 13.b4 Bg4 - one game of mine continued 14.Ne4 Bxf3 15.Nxf6+ Qxf6 16.Bxf3 Nxc4 17.Bxc6 bxc6 18.Qc2 Nb6 {18...Nxe3 19.fxe3 Qg5 is possible} 19.Qxc6 Nd5 =)
12...Bg6
(12...h6 13.b4 e5! 14.d5 e4 15.Nd4 Nxd4 16.Bxd4 c6 17.Rc1 is also reasonable for Black imo. Emms says White is better after 17...cxd5? 18.c5 but if Black instead keeps the tension with 17...Re8 and Rc8 I don't see why White is better)
13.b4 e5 14.d5
(14.dxe5 Nxe5 15.Nxe5 Bxe5 =)
14...e4 15.Nd4 Nxd4
(Emms only gives 15...Ne5 without comment but after 16.Qb3 White is playing c5 and looks good to me)
16.Bxd4 c6 17.Bxf6 Qxf6 18.Qb3 was played in one of my games and now 18...cxd5 19.Nxd5 Nxd5 20.cxd5 is if anything a little better for Black. Maybe White does better with 17.Rc1 but I'm still not really scared for Black.
  
FIDE: ~2100
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10607
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #55 - 03/29/12 at 02:00:50
Post Tools
I have played this line as Black some 15 years ago and while it's not much fun Black doesn't need to feel terrorized either. My main objection is the lack of winning chances.
As White I prefer the more ambitious 4.Bc4 and as Black 3...Nbd7.

That line 7...Be7 8.c4 Nb4 9.Nc3 should be met 9...Nc2 10.Rb1 O-O. Playing chess is different from playing checkers - we are not obliged to take.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4707
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #54 - 03/28/12 at 20:32:29
Post Tools
Offhand it seems plausible to me that Black should have something "remotely resembling equality" after 3.Bb5+ Bd7 4.Be2 Nxd5 5.d4 Bf5 6. Nf3 e6 7. 0-0 Be7 8. a3 (and I see that some books have given it as leading to equality).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
PANFR
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 251
Location: Greece
Joined: 10/31/11
Gender: Male
Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #53 - 03/28/12 at 19:38:45
Post Tools
SWJediknight wrote on 12/21/11 at 16:50:11:
My impression was always that Black was OK after 3.Bb5+ Bd7 4.Bc4 Bg4 and 4.Be2 Nxd5 5.d4 Bf5 or 5...b5!? (mentioned by Watson in a Chesspublishing update) and 3...Nbd7 has also been gaining attention.   Note that if 3.Bb5+ is very strong, this casts doubt on the entire 2...Nf6 Scandinavian, not just the approaches with 3...Bg4.


I cannot see how Black can achieve something remotely resembling equality after 3.Bb5+ Bd7 4.Be2 Nxd5 5.d4.
Now 5...b5 doesn't look like a serious move, and 5...Bf5 6.Nf3 e6 7.0-0 Nc6?! is bad due to 8.c4! Nb4 9.Nc3! when going after that a1 rook with 9...Nc2 loses to 10.d5 Nxa1 11.Qa4!
So, Black has to play something like 7...Be7 when besides the enterprising 8.c4!? Nb4 9.Nc3 Nc2 10.Rb1 Nb4 11.Be3 Bxb1 12.Qxb1 where white has terrific positional compensation for the exchange (although not necessarily enough to win in a correspondence game), he can also play routinely 8.a3 followed by c4 etc.
Where exactly Black is OK in these lines? Did I omit something critical?
« Last Edit: 03/28/12 at 22:41:16 by PANFR »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
tipau
Full Member
***
Offline


I Like ChessPublishing!

Posts: 172
Location: London, England
Joined: 01/25/08
Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #52 - 03/25/12 at 20:15:32
Post Tools
SWJediknight wrote on 12/21/11 at 16:50:11:
After 3.Nf3, 3...Bg4 is again possible, though dubious- 4.Bb5+ Nbd7 5.h3! is White's route to some advantage (rather than 5.c4 e6!?).  See Silman's analysis for more details:
http://www.jeremysilman.com/chess_opng_anlys/120302_can_white_avoid_dr.html
also Michael Goeller looked at 3.Nf3 Bg4 here:
http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/articles/opening/anti-port.htm
If Black considers 3...Bg4 too risky there is always 3...Qxd5 which often transposes to regular "Portuguese declined" lines after, say, 4.d4 Bg4 5.Be2.


I think Black can have another problem if White refrains from d2-d4 with 3.Nf3 Qxd5 4.Nc3 when 4...Qh5 5.Be2 Bg4 6.h3 and 7.0-0 leaves Black worse so Black does best to enter the ...Qa5 or ...Qd6 lines and doesn't get independent Portuguese style play.

That said, personally I don't mind the ...Qd6 lines and would happily play the variation again if White didn't have such a simple and risk free advantage with 3.d4 Bg4 4.Bb5+ Nbd7 5.Be2...Sad
  
FIDE: ~2100
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Vass
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1105
Joined: 06/22/11
Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #51 - 12/21/11 at 17:54:42
Post Tools
SWJediknight wrote on 12/21/11 at 16:50:11:
After 3.Nf3, 3...Bg4 is again possible, though dubious- 4.Bb5+ Nbd7 5.h3! is White's route to some advantage (rather than 5.c4 e6!?).  See Silman's analysis for more details:
http://www.jeremysilman.com/chess_opng_anlys/120302_can_white_avoid_dr.html
also Michael Goeller looked at 3.Nf3 Bg4 here:
http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/articles/opening/anti-port.htm
If Black considers 3...Bg4 too risky there is always 3...Qxd5 which often transposes to regular "Portuguese declined" lines after, say, 4.d4 Bg4 5.Be2.

My impression was always that Black was OK after 3.Bb5+ Bd7 4.Bc4 Bg4 and 4.Be2 Nxd5 5.d4 Bf5 or 5...b5!? (mentioned by Watson in a Chesspublishing update) and 3...Nbd7 has also been gaining attention.   Note that if 3.Bb5+ is very strong, this casts doubt on the entire 2...Nf6 Scandinavian, not just the approaches with 3...Bg4.  But I think 3.d4 Bg4 4.Bb5+ (discussed earlier in the thread) is an improved version of that line for White.

Absolutely agree with you!..  Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SWJediknight
God Member
*****
Offline


Alert... opponent out
of book!

Posts: 904
Joined: 03/14/08
Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #50 - 12/21/11 at 16:50:11
Post Tools
After 3.Nf3, 3...Bg4 is again possible, though dubious- 4.Bb5+ Nbd7 5.h3! is White's route to some advantage (rather than 5.c4 e6!?).  See Silman's analysis for more details:
http://www.jeremysilman.com/chess_opng_anlys/120302_can_white_avoid_dr.html
also Michael Goeller looked at 3.Nf3 Bg4 here:
http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/articles/opening/anti-port.htm
If Black considers 3...Bg4 too risky there is always 3...Qxd5 which often transposes to regular "Portuguese declined" lines after, say, 4.d4 Bg4 5.Be2.

My impression was always that Black was OK after 3.Bb5+ Bd7 4.Bc4 Bg4 and 4.Be2 Nxd5 5.d4 Bf5 or 5...b5!? (mentioned by Watson in a Chesspublishing update) and 3...Nbd7 has also been gaining attention.   Note that if 3.Bb5+ is very strong, this casts doubt on the entire 2...Nf6 Scandinavian, not just the approaches with 3...Bg4.  But I think 3.d4 Bg4 4.Bb5+ (discussed earlier in the thread) is an improved version of that line for White.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JN
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 56
Joined: 12/11/04
Gender: Male
Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #49 - 12/21/11 at 16:35:00
Post Tools
BTW: 3.Nf3 is also a pain in the a**
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Vass
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1105
Joined: 06/22/11
Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #48 - 12/21/11 at 12:34:23
Post Tools
JN wrote on 12/21/11 at 10:36:27:
The move that put me off the Portuguese was 3.Bb5+. Isn't it just a simple += for white?

+= at least..  Wink
But what a fun to play in an OTB game against an unprepared opponent!  Grin
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JN
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 56
Joined: 12/11/04
Gender: Male
Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #47 - 12/21/11 at 10:36:27
Post Tools
The move that put me off the Portuguese was 3.Bb5+. Isn't it just a simple += for white?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10607
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #46 - 11/08/11 at 10:02:21
Post Tools
As I remarked on the previous page.

MNb wrote on 11/05/11 at 21:47:45:
After reading that column I asked FM Galore by em-mail a way out of my dilemma:


Wink
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Vass
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1105
Joined: 06/22/11
Re: Scandinavian Portuguese...again!?
Reply #45 - 11/08/11 at 08:28:32
Post Tools
MNb wrote on 11/07/11 at 16:03:07:
And 11...Nc6!? is more ambitious than 11...Re8. A sample line is 12.exf7+ Rxf7 13.O-O Rd8 14.Rfe1 Nh5 15.Qe6 Qxe6 16.Rxe6 Nf4 17.Re3 Nd3 and Black will have two very active Knights (the other will possibly go to c2 via b4).
10.O-O Nbd7 and Black can afford castling Queenside, which is more interesting than the lines we discussed above.

And thus, we don't have to play a boring version of Caro-Kann..  Grin
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 9
Topic Tools
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board Top  

ChessPub Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2021. All Rights Reserved.

Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge