Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Rybka disqualified and banned from WCCC (Read 47175 times)
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: Rybka disqualified and banned from WCCC
Reply #36 - 07/03/11 at 12:13:43
Post Tools
Straggler wrote on 07/03/11 at 11:31:31:
Markovich wrote on 07/03/11 at 01:10:50:
I have to say, this being theft, that the oh-well-how-bad-is-it-really tone of some posts here is pretty aggravating.

With respect, it isn't actually theft. If you steal something, the owner no longer has it. If you infringe someone's copyright, they still have their property (viz. the copyright). They may be financially worse off as a result of the infringement, but nothing has been stolen from them.

Not that that invalidates your point.


With respect, that actually is theft, using the term the way I believe the vast majority of people do. But what's the point of splitting semantic hairs? To make stealing other people's ideas seem less reprehensible?

The authors of Crafty set forth their code under terms that legally guaranteed its ability to be copied and modified by anyone using it, terms which by license extend to any software that encorporates this code.  By appropriating this code and distributing it in hidden, uncopyable and unmodifiable form (supposing that the allegations are true), Rybka's author made all the eventual recipients of his code the poorer, in their lost ability to copy and modify his source code, which was their right vis his use of GPL'd source code. That is the basis upon which the FSF would sue.  They have indeed sued others before on this same basis.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Straggler
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 382
Joined: 08/09/09
Re: Rybka disqualified and banned from WCCC
Reply #35 - 07/03/11 at 11:31:31
Post Tools
Markovich wrote on 07/03/11 at 01:10:50:
I have to say, this being theft, that the oh-well-how-bad-is-it-really tone of some posts here is pretty aggravating.

With respect, it isn't actually theft. If you steal something, the owner no longer has it. If you infringe someone's copyright, they still have their property (viz. the copyright). They may be financially worse off as a result of the infringement, but nothing has been stolen from them.

Not that that invalidates your point.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jupp53
God Member
*****
Offline


be

Posts: 988
Location: Frankfurt/Main
Joined: 01/04/09
Gender: Male
Re: Rybka disqualified and banned from WCCC
Reply #34 - 07/03/11 at 10:32:28
Post Tools
Doesn't this happen at a time when selling programs is mostly influenced by the GUI and functionality for different uses? Does anyone really care if a prog is 3000 or 3050?
  

Medical textbooks say I should be dead since April 2002.
Dum spiro spero. Smiley
Narcissm is the humans primary disease.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MartinC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2073
Joined: 07/24/06
Re: Rybka disqualified and banned from WCCC
Reply #33 - 07/03/11 at 09:30:44
Post Tools
Potentially worse than that for Chessbase of course because a GPLed Rkyba would surely basically destroy the commercial chess program market?

I'm still not sure quite who he'd be meant to pay damages too - the commons being too generalised - but certainly not an expert Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
YaBB Moderator
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: Rybka disqualified and banned from WCCC
Reply #32 - 07/03/11 at 03:26:48
Post Tools
The ruling isn't a legal ruling in and of itself, but it will make any legal case against Rybka that much easier. I think it's pretty clear why Chessbase has remained silent on this rather important piece of computer chess news. (Remember how quickly they report when one of their programs win these tnmts.)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: Rybka disqualified and banned from WCCC
Reply #31 - 07/03/11 at 02:25:16
Post Tools
Exactly. FSF is.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
trw
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1413
Joined: 05/06/08
Gender: Male
Re: Rybka disqualified and banned from WCCC
Reply #30 - 07/03/11 at 01:30:43
Post Tools
Markovich wrote on 07/03/11 at 01:10:50:
Most likely the Free Software Foundation will bring suit, and if he's in the wrong, he'll definitely have a rather large check to write. I doubt very much if the FSF would be satisfied with his opening Rybka's source code, particularly since the GPL already requires that. He will have to disgorge some or all of his ill-gotten gains. At least, that's what he's liable for.

I have to say, this being theft, that the oh-well-how-bad-is-it-really tone of some posts here is pretty aggravating. The idea that no one has been financially damaged is pretty laughable. This guy has stolen a big piece of the commons and grazed exclusively his own sheep on it, you see?


While what you say is true, it still takes someone actually bringing suit against him. ICGA is not a legal body by any means.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: Rybka disqualified and banned from WCCC
Reply #29 - 07/03/11 at 01:10:50
Post Tools
MartinC wrote on 07/01/11 at 08:41:46:
Is there financial liablity? Not clear who he'd pay it to, as no one has been financially damaged.

Most logically could see him being forced to GPL Rykba, which would of course have non trivial consequences!


Most likely the Free Software Foundation will bring suit, and if he's in the wrong, he'll definitely have a rather large check to write. I doubt very much if the FSF would be satisfied with his opening Rybka's source code, particularly since the GPL already requires that. He will have to disgorge some or all of his ill-gotten gains. At least, that's what he's liable for.

I have to say, this being theft, that the oh-well-how-bad-is-it-really tone of some posts here is pretty aggravating. The idea that no one has been financially damaged is pretty laughable. This guy has stolen a big piece of the commons and grazed exclusively his own sheep on it, you see?

@Lev: I doubt that any more copies of Rybka will be sold, not unless its creator can exonerate himself.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
trw
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1413
Joined: 05/06/08
Gender: Male
Re: Rybka disqualified and banned from WCCC
Reply #28 - 07/02/11 at 22:49:01
Post Tools
Gambit wrote on 07/02/11 at 22:32:20:
Does this controversy mean Rybka will no longer be sold?


Rybka will still be for sale (at least until such time as a formal lawsuit is brought with injunctions against sale). It just can no longer compete in tournaments.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gambit
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 1394
Location: Newark
Joined: 07/26/05
Gender: Male
Re: Rybka disqualified and banned from WCCC
Reply #27 - 07/02/11 at 22:32:20
Post Tools
Absolutely incredible! Rybka being banned for cheating?! Oh man... I read the entire 2 pages of posts, and found the ICGA conclusions to be believable. You cannot make this stuff up, people. As someone who served on the Judiciary Board at Bloomfield College in New Jersey, I know what the legal process looks like. You hear the evidence, listen to the prosecution and the defense, then make your judgment.

Vasik offered no defense, and as result, effectively forfeited the case.

Now, I am no computer geek, but even I know that software can be copied and plagiarized. We see this here in America with pirated CDs all the time. So what makes anyone think computer software cannot be plagiarized? Anyone with the necessary knowhow and expertise could do it.

Does this controversy mean Rybka will no longer be sold?
  
Back to top
YIM  
IP Logged
 
Harvey Williamson
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 193
Location: Media City, UK
Joined: 01/04/03
Gender: Male
Re: Rybka disqualified and banned from WCCC
Reply #26 - 07/01/11 at 10:07:35
Post Tools
The ICGA have created a page on Wikispaces https://icga.wikispaces.com/message/list/Preventing+cheating

Here anyone can post ideas and proposed rule changes by clicking on the Discussion tab. You must 1st be a member of Wikispaces this takes about 11 seconds.

Only posts on this Wiki will be considered by the ICGA board.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
MartinC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2073
Joined: 07/24/06
Re: Rybka disqualified and banned from WCCC
Reply #25 - 07/01/11 at 08:41:46
Post Tools
Is there financial liablity? Not clear who he'd pay it to, as no one has been financially damaged.

Most logically could see him being forced to GPL Rykba, which would of course have non trivial consequences!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
jmi
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 58
Joined: 11/21/06
Re: Rybka disqualified and banned from WCCC
Reply #24 - 07/01/11 at 07:23:11
Post Tools
Thanks Harvey, for the update.
  

Another wonderful chess link you should visit http://www.chesspublishing.com Smiley
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Harvey Williamson
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 193
Location: Media City, UK
Joined: 01/04/03
Gender: Male
Re: Rybka disqualified and banned from WCCC
Reply #23 - 07/01/11 at 06:54:23
Post Tools
jmi wrote on 07/01/11 at 01:33:37:
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 06/30/11 at 16:41:05:
I found it interesting that Chessbase was silent on the issue as of yesterday. (I haven't checked today.)


Still nothing yet. Chessbase is no doubt seeking legal advice.

Btw, has the report/findings been sent to FSF yet? If it did, more sh!t is going to hit the fan. Vasik had better get a good lawyer .... or a good hiding place.

PS: A more informed article has now appeared in the Washington Times:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jun/30/computer-chess-champ-stripped-of...


[color=#00ff00][/color]

Yes the FSF have a copy
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
snits
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 103
Location: Phoenix
Joined: 12/29/06
Gender: Male
Re: Rybka disqualified and banned from WCCC
Reply #22 - 07/01/11 at 06:05:58
Post Tools
jmi wrote on 07/01/11 at 01:33:37:
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 06/30/11 at 16:41:05:
I found it interesting that Chessbase was silent on the issue as of yesterday. (I haven't checked today.)


Still nothing yet. Chessbase is no doubt seeking legal advice.

Btw, has the report/findings been sent to FSF yet? If it did, more sh!t is going to hit the fan. Vasik had better get a good lawyer .... or a good hiding place.

PS: A more informed article has now appeared in the Washington Times:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jun/30/computer-chess-champ-stripped-of...



I imagine the silence of Chessbase has to do with their bank account, and not any legal worries over publishing the story.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo