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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C02: Is the French Advance a good weapon? (Read 48428 times)
kylemeister
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Re: C02: Is the French Advance a good weapon?
Reply #14 - 08/13/11 at 03:57:44
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I would submit that it is common for White to have a hard time demonstrating a theoretical advantage in major variations of major openings, and that if the Advance appeared to offer White something like a definite +=, it would be the leading line against the French.
  
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Akavall
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Re: C02: Is the French Advance a good weapon?
Reply #13 - 08/13/11 at 02:38:36
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Is there really no objective advantage in Advance French? It is played at top-level reasonably often, Svidler, Shirov, Morozevich, and Grischuk played it. I would think that white gets at least something.

  
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MNb
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Re: C02: Is the French Advance a good weapon?
Reply #12 - 08/04/11 at 10:02:22
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Ng8-h6-f5-h6 is perfectly legal. See Black's 8th.
Indeed, it happens to us all.  Wink
  

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OrangeCounty
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was a good move!

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Re: C02: Is the French Advance a good weapon?
Reply #11 - 08/04/11 at 03:21:10
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Nh6 twice?  Not criticizing, just questioning which line you mean.  Happens to us all...

[Indeed, MnB!]
« Last Edit: 08/04/11 at 21:00:27 by OrangeCounty »  
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Daniel
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Re: C02: Is the French Advance a good weapon?
Reply #10 - 08/03/11 at 00:19:33
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Sveshnikov himself said in his recent two-part survey in NIC Yearbooks 97 and 98 that white gets nothing in the critical line of 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 c5 4. c3 Nc6 5. Nf3 Qb6 6. a3 Nh6 7. b4 cxd4 8. cxd4 Nf5 9. Bb2 Bd7! 10. g4 Nh6!

Instead he recommends 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 c5 4. c3 Nc6 5. Nf3 Qb6 6. a3 Nh6 7. b4 cxd4 8. Bxh6!? claiming a slight edge in an unbalanced position. I don't believe white has an edge if black has studied i beforehand but it certainly is a different game from the normal 8. cd.
  
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Uhohspaghettio
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Re: C02: Is the French Advance a good weapon?
Reply #9 - 08/02/11 at 22:21:20
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If it's good enough for Sveshnikov and Benjamin it's good enough for me.

Look at the master-level statistics: http://www.365chess.com/opening.php?m=5&n=17&ms=e4.e6.d4.d5&ns=3.16.12.17

I think people like de Firmian are clearly too quick to label some attacks that professionals use (often better than de Firmian) to good effect all the time as "leading to equality". It's the same with openings like the Vienna Game which do leave white with an advantage and not equality, as also clearly shown by the statistics. Theoretically-speaking the Ruy Lopez is better. But for one Black will likely have prepared the Ruy Lopez if he intends playing 1. ...e5. On an amateur level, in the Advance French there are lots of subtle mistakes near the opening Black could potentially make if he isn't playing the exact book moves.

The only bad news is that with the Sveshnikov books the opening could be due for a resurgence which will in turn lead Black players to prepare better against it....
  
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MartinC
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Re: C02: Is the French Advance a good weapon?
Reply #8 - 07/19/11 at 20:03:08
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Sure, I mean its only been a main line since the openings foundation Smiley

I'm not entirely sure how easy it is to handle as white. You do certainly have to be happy playing with space vs activity. Some of those Grischuk games with Kh1 and stuff do seem a little bit mysterious, but he knows what he's doing!
  
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fling
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Re: C02: Is the French Advance a good weapon?
Reply #7 - 07/19/11 at 18:23:44
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Thanks for the reply, Fllg. I guess these systems are less theoretical, but in the French it really doesn't say that much I guess!
  
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Fllg
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Re: C02: Is the French Advance a good weapon?
Reply #6 - 07/19/11 at 18:15:04
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fling wrote on 07/19/11 at 17:59:09:
Which are these?


After 3.Nd2 the "Universal System" comes to mind while against the Winawer after 3.Nc3 Bb4 all of 4.exd5, 4.Nge2, 4.e5 c5 5.Bd2 are relatively low theory but not without some venom. Against the Classical after 3.Nc3 Nf6 there is e.g. 4.Bg5 Be7 5.e5 Nfd7 6.Bxe7 Qxe7 7.Nb5 or 7.Qh5!? or just the mainline 7.f4. Vs. the McCutcheon 4.Bg5 Bb4 5.Nge2 is possible again or 5.e5 h6 6. Be3.

I don´t say these lines require no study at all nor do they guarantee an advantage. But here as White I don´t feel as much under pressure as in the Advance.
  
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Re: C02: Is the French Advance a good weapon?
Reply #5 - 07/19/11 at 18:11:53
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clickclick wrote on 07/19/11 at 05:37:26:
Objectively, don't expect an advantage (or even a rich complex position), despite what Sveshnikov says. 


You should not expect an advantage, but in most games a rich complex position arises. Of course there are many attempts for white to aim for an advantage, just like after 3.Nc3 and 3.Nd2 (after all, is a white advantage guaranteed there?!).
What I like about the Advance is that in some sense black's options are more limited compared to the main variations after 3.Nc3.
You won't see black play "rubbish" like giving up the dark squared bishop and then play Kf8 or g6 and still be OK.
Mistakes from both sides are more likely to be punished, of course this also goes for white who has to play the opening in a precise manner.
  
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fling
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Re: C02: Is the French Advance a good weapon?
Reply #4 - 07/19/11 at 17:59:09
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Fllg wrote on 07/19/11 at 15:49:21:
There are healthy lines for White after both 3.Nc3 or 3.Nd2 which do not grant Black so much early activity without having to study realms of theory.


Which are these?

I agree that the Advance and Exchange as well would be the first two structures to look at as Black because those are the options White often chooses when trying to avoid the heavy theory.
  
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Fllg
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Re: C02: Is the French Advance a good weapon?
Reply #3 - 07/19/11 at 15:49:21
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When I played the French I have always been very happy seeing my opponent choosing 3.e5 because Black has a number of sound attractive ways to counter this. While objectively equal it puts not much pressure on Black.

And since it leads to the most typical pawn structure of the French it is surely the first line anyone interested in this opening from the Black side is looking into.

I have tried it as White too but never felt comfortable here. One can easily get the impression that it is Black who dictates the course of the game, e.g. by attacking the pawn chain with c5 and f6 while White is busy defending it or at least trying to keep some control over the squares d4 and e5.

There are healthy lines for White after both 3.Nc3 or 3.Nd2 which do not grant Black so much early activity without having to study realms of theory.
  
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Re: C02: Is the French Advance a good weapon?
Reply #2 - 07/19/11 at 05:37:26
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It's a good choice in the sense that not many French practitioners pay as much attention to it as, say, the Winawer or the Tarrasch. Objectively, don't expect an advantage (or even a rich complex position), despite what Sveshnikov says.

In my opinion, the biggest problem for White is what to do (after 10.g4) against ...Nfe7. If you are happy playing the endgame that arises, then yes, the French Advance is a good weapon.
  
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Re: C02: Is the French Advance a good weapon?
Reply #1 - 07/19/11 at 02:57:26
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Pingudon wrote on 07/19/11 at 02:26:41:
I decided to change from 1.d4 to 1.e4. I am trying to have a main line repertoire but one that is not so wide. I am thinking in the advance French as my weapon against The French. Is it a good choice? Can you talk me about statistics?


Advance French? Wouldn't myself, but some do.
Book: Sveshnikov's books are a fair place to start.
'Hero': Grischuk
Statistics: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Statistics
  
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Pingudon
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C02: Is the French Advance a good weapon?
07/19/11 at 02:26:41
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I decided to change from 1.d4 to 1.e4. I am trying to have a main line repertoire but one that is not so wide. I am thinking in the advance French as my weapon against The French. Is it a good choice? Can you talk me about statistics?
  
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