Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 4
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 20 Years With the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit (Read 48370 times)
Bibs
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 2170
Joined: 10/24/06
Re: 20 Years With the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #54 - 06/18/13 at 23:47:29
Post Tools
Thread locked. Gambit appears to be talking largely to himself. And 'Sota' who may or may not be Gambit too, but has only posted once.
All - we very much welcome analysis and considered contributions.


  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gambit
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 1387
Location: Newark
Joined: 07/26/05
Gender: Male
Re: 20 Years With the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #53 - 06/18/13 at 18:17:34
Post Tools
In case you are interested, there is an "The Unorthodox Openings" group on chess.com website.
That is an email correspondence site, where I play often. The BDG: Vienna Defense, is right now being played in Vote Chess format.
  
Back to top
YIM  
IP Logged
 
Gambit
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 1387
Location: Newark
Joined: 07/26/05
Gender: Male
Re: 20 Years With the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #52 - 03/08/13 at 08:51:19
Post Tools
Will do.
  
Back to top
YIM  
IP Logged
 
Sota
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1
Joined: 01/11/13
Gender: Male
Re: 20 Years With the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #51 - 01/23/13 at 20:56:05
Post Tools
Keep us updated.

Sota
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gambit
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 1387
Location: Newark
Joined: 07/26/05
Gender: Male
Re: 20 Years With the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #50 - 08/10/12 at 12:48:23
Post Tools
Continuing to type up my BDG games. Will include some never-before seen games and analyses. Working on a BDG book.
  
Back to top
YIM  
IP Logged
 
Gambit
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 1387
Location: Newark
Joined: 07/26/05
Gender: Male
Re: 20 Years With the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #49 - 05/18/12 at 21:34:41
Post Tools
I am preparing a Blackmar-Diemer Gambit CD of all my games, 1991 - 2012. Might include the early attempts with the Polish Gambit, 1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 Bg5.

Anyone interested in buying my CD once I complete it?
  
Back to top
YIM  
IP Logged
 
Gambit
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 1387
Location: Newark
Joined: 07/26/05
Gender: Male
Re: 20 Years With the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #48 - 12/15/11 at 05:34:04
Post Tools
Zilbermintz,Lev (2096) - Macaspac,Arthur (2137) [D00]
Garden State Chess League 2011-12 Rahway, NJ (2), 09.12.2011

board 1 D00 QP Game Blackmar-Diemer Gambit

1.d4 Nf6 2.f3 d5 3.e4 dxe4 4.Nc3 exf3 5.Nxf3 e6 6.Bg5 Bb4 7.Bd3 b6 [RR: 7...Nbd7 8.0-0 Bxc3?! 9.bxc3 c5 10.Qe2 Qc7 11.Rae1+/= Mingos - Moldovan : correspondence, USCF 1986]

8.a3 Bxc3+ 9.bxc3 Bb7 10.0-0 Nbd7 11.Qe2 Qe7 12.a4N [12.Ne5 h6 13.Bh4 g5 14.Bg3 0-0-0 15.Ba6 Nb8 16.Bxb7+ Kxb7 17.Qf3+ Kc8 18.Qxf6 Qe8 19.Nxf7 1-0 Hanison - Reussner : correspondence, Germany 2001]

12...h6 13.Bd2 a5 14.c4 c6 15.Rab1 Ba6 16.Ne5 Nxe5 17.Qxe5 Qd8 18.Bf4 Ra7 19.Bg3 Rd7 20.c3 Rg8 21.Bh4 g5 22.Rxf6 gxh4 23.Rbf1 h3 24.g3 Rg5 25.Qf4 e5 26.Re6+ Re7 27.Qxf7+ Kd7 28.Rxe7+ Qxe7 29.Qf3 Bb7 30.Bf5+ Kc7 31.Qe4 c5 32.Qxe5+ Qxe5 33.dxe5 Bg2 34.Rf2 h5 35.e6 Kd8 36.Rd2+ Ke8 37.Rf2 Ke7 38.Rf4 Rg8 39.Rh4= Rd8? 40.Rxh5 Rd1+ 41.Kf2 Rf1+ 42.Ke2? Ra1? 43.Rh7+ Kf6 44.e7 Bc6 45.Rh6+ Kxf5 46.Rxc6 Ra2+ 47.Kf3 1-0

Comments by John Moldovan
  
Back to top
YIM  
IP Logged
 
Gambit
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 1387
Location: Newark
Joined: 07/26/05
Gender: Male
Re: 20 Years With the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #47 - 10/25/11 at 17:51:02
Post Tools
MNb wrote on 10/25/11 at 10:12:18:
Interesting, but a bit irrelevant, Lev. What's the oldest Kampars game in the book? Tom Purser gives a game from 1955 and also a 1955 game by Sneiders. Who are the other BDG-players at such an early or earlier stage? From which country are they?


Germany, Australia, New Zealand, Netherlands, United States... these are the countries in the 1962-1963 "Opening Adventures." I will post more once I come home from college.
  
Back to top
YIM  
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10515
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: 20 Years With the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #46 - 10/25/11 at 10:12:18
Post Tools
Interesting, but a bit irrelevant, Lev. What's the oldest Kampars game in the book? Tom Purser gives a game from 1955 and also a 1955 game by Sneiders. Who are the other BDG-players at such an early or earlier stage? From which country are they?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gambit
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 1387
Location: Newark
Joined: 07/26/05
Gender: Male
Re: 20 Years With the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #45 - 10/25/11 at 06:11:06
Post Tools
I recently purchased on eBay "Opening Adventures" by Nicholas Kampars, Volume 1 and 2, 1962 - 1963. In addition, I have the original of Volume 4, 1965.
The two first volumes definitely have games from the 1950s and early 1960s. There are analyses by Diemer, Kampars, Dravnieks, Mednis, and other players. The magazine articles are  written in the English, German and Latvian languages.

Preliminary research yields BDG games 1950 - 1963. There are players other than Kampars and Co. playing the BDG in postal chess in the early 1950s.
  
Back to top
YIM  
IP Logged
 
Stefan Buecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1382
Location: Germany
Joined: 02/11/09
Gender: Male
Re: 20 Years With the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #44 - 10/25/11 at 00:41:59
Post Tools
MNb wrote on 10/25/11 at 00:12:49:
Here is the letter you wrote about:

http://www.belkaplan.de/chess/bdg/diemer/euwe_brief_050556.html

So you seem to be right about Euwe being responsible for dubbing 2.e4 the BDG.
That Diemer wasn't taken seriously already in the 50's can be seen here:

http://www.belkaplan.de/chess/bdg/diemer/hans_mueller_glosse.html

And this is the infamous Donner article:

http://www.belkaplan.de/chess/bdg/diemer/donner_prophet_von_muggensturm_en.html

Thanks. That was the letter which I had in mind. Max Euwe's reaction speaks volumes. Grin Diemer's loud enthusiasm for this system was a bit much to bear for Müller, Euwe, Pachman, etc.

There are detailed lists of Diemer's articles in various sources (Studier; Rochade); and he propagated the gambit in print early and often, calling it "Blackmar-Gambit". For example in Schach-Echo 1953, p. 100 (the name appears four times on this page alone, plus one "Blackmar-Stellung". Or in Österreichische Schachzeitung 1955, p. 237, is Müller's article "Zur Theorie des Blackmar-Gambits". Müller quotes Diemer, who had sent him analyses, again it is always "Blackmar-Gambit". There must be pre-1950 articles, too.

Diemer's book covers only the Ryder Gambit, but there is also his fanzine "Blackmar-Gemeinde" (about 1956), with a variety of BDG lines, and also other games e.g. 1.d4 e5. Somehow I've got the impression that Diemer started using "B-Diemer-G" only after Euwe's letter. But proving this hypothesis would be hard; I am not eager to look through all the material, sorry.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10515
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: 20 Years With the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #43 - 10/25/11 at 00:12:49
Post Tools
Here is the letter you wrote about:

http://www.belkaplan.de/chess/bdg/diemer/euwe_brief_050556.html

So you seem to be right about Euwe being responsible for dubbing 2.e4 the BDG.
That Diemer wasn't taken seriously already in the 50's can be seen here:

http://www.belkaplan.de/chess/bdg/diemer/hans_mueller_glosse.html

And this is the infamous Donner article:

http://www.belkaplan.de/chess/bdg/diemer/donner_prophet_von_muggensturm_en.html

The first line is a classic.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10515
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: 20 Years With the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #42 - 10/24/11 at 23:51:51
Post Tools
Stefan Buecker wrote on 10/24/11 at 22:23:20:
Is it sure that this one was written by Euwe? Maybe by someone else (Edward Winter once wrote about Euwe's cooperations with Kmoch etc.). But Euwe was the official author,

The Losbladige articles were all attributed to Euwe, so it will probably remain unknown who actually wrote it.
As I always have understood Euwe wrote it because of Diemer's quite sensational success at Hoogovens, 1956. But your interpretation might be right, as Diemer did not actually get the chance to play it (only one Hübsch Gambit).
In the meantime I have done some research. The BDG was already known in Canada at least in 1955. It seems that Nikolajs Kampars introduced it. It's remarkable that several immigrants from the Baltic States practiced it: Sneiders, Dravnieks and Tejler all claime to have learned it from him.
Source: Tom Purser, who seems only interested in biased news about the BDG (which doesn't necessarily mean that he has the facts wrong). He mentions our little debates, but doesn't mention anywhere on his page the contributions of Von Hennig and Milner-Barry.
My point is that the BDG obviously crossed the ocean before Diemer published his book and the Losbladige article was written. Now I'd like to know if Kampars can be connected to Diemer somehow - before those refugees began to play the BDG I mean.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stefan Buecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1382
Location: Germany
Joined: 02/11/09
Gender: Male
Re: 20 Years With the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #41 - 10/24/11 at 22:23:20
Post Tools
Diemer had written articles on the system in the early 1950s. Then there was the "Losbladige" article. Is it sure that this one was written by Euwe? Maybe by someone else (Edward Winter once wrote about Euwe's cooperations with Kmoch etc.). But Euwe was the official author, and so Diemer wrote to Euwe to discuss the gambit. Euwe politely replied, Diemer quoted him in his book. That's what I remember - and also that Euwe was annoyed that 5...e6 got his name. At one point Euwe stopped replying. It was in these letters where Euwe called the system "Blackmar-Diemer Gambit", I believe. Not sure where I have read this, however.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10515
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: 20 Years With the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #40 - 10/24/11 at 21:23:20
Post Tools
Now I regret not owing De Losbladige Schaakberichten from the 50's anymore. It got lost during my last emigration.
I remember Euwe writing an article in 1956 or 1957 about the BDG, but can't remember if he gave it a name. The article was mainly about Diemer's games obviously. It might very well be the case that it was just called Queen Pawns Opening. I do know 5...e6 was dubbed the Euwe Defence because he recommended it in said article; also the game Bogo-Diemer was there, giving 5...g6 the name Bogoljubow Defence (which shows again how silly BDG-nomenclature is).
There is at least one biography on Diemer. Isn't the answer there?
Otherwise somebody should go check it in the Max Euwe Centre or in The Hague's Royal Library.

Anyhow, Diemer's first book, published in 1957, was called Vom ersten Zug an auf Matt! : 25 Jahre Erfahrungen mit dem Blackmar-Diemer-Gambit.

http://d-nb.info/456453954

It did not cause an explosion in The Netherlands, mainly because Donner ridiculed him in "De Tijd“, February 1958 already. That article has made it into The King.
Diemer's loss against Geza Fuster, Beverwijk 1958 did not help very much either.
It took a few years before the idea reached the other side of the Atlantic Ocean; as far as I could trace Dravnieks and Sneiders began to play it in corr. games in 1961. Serious OTB games are rare, so it's more like Diemers book caused a storm in a glass of water.
I lively can remember that Diemer's 1957 book wasn't sold out yet in the early 80's; I saw it in the publisher's store (Ten Have, Leidsestraat Amsterdam). What's more, it was actually about the Ryder Gambit. And it was crap. Gazillions of hardly annotated games with lots of exclams, no explanations, presented in an unsystematical way.

Gambit wrote on 09/24/11 at 23:00:07:
You need someone to systematize and describe the hows and whys of a new opening system. Milner-Barry and Richter, to the best of my knowledge, did not do that. It remained for Diemer to do that with his writings in the newspapers and chess press.

So actually Diemer did not do that either. There is a reason Tim Sawyer wrote as late as 1992 that

Quote:
I simply got tired of consulting 20 or more chess books on the BDG for each of my postal games.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 4
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo