Vass wrote on 04/24/12 at 11:34:21:

Well, I did recognize that your analysis was fine, based on some real checking. The topical break c7-c5 appeared quite often on my board, too. It is true that White has to be very cautious. That's why I was optimistic at first, earlier in the thread. In your main line, by the way, a4-a3 would be an idea, since else White could stabilize his structure by means of a2-a3. But that's a minor point, I think.

By the way, after 11...c5 12.Ng4 Qxe2+ 13.Kxe2, my line was 13...Bh4 14.g3 Be7, as already given by huggy, instead of the immediate 13...Be7. In some lines Black can profit from the weak square f3. Yet full equality I can't see.

Vass wrote on 04/21/12 at 11:30:45:

I am not sure that 11...c5 is worse than 11...0-0. In your main line, 14. Re1 is more flexible than 14.Be3. White has a lasting plus, no?

Well, my researches bring me to conclusion that 11...c5 is inferior to 11...0-0 which is enough for equality, especially after 13...Be7!? with some good compensation for the pawn. The main line goes like this:

Stefan Buecker wrote on 12/08/11 at 02:30:18:


I tried this in three recent (2011/2012) ChessWorld games but didn't get anywhere:

I hope this post is not considered spamming as I just wanted to thank all contributors to this thread for compiling lots of useful information. I am currently putting together a black repertoire based on 1.e4 e5 for a video series targeted for mostly amateur players. I'll most likely go for 3... Bc5 in the Ruy and found the discussion here most helpful.

Stefan Buecker wrote on 12/19/11 at 10:09:37:

Oh, come on Stefan. Surely you can overturn at least one of his conclusions.

Team,

Sorry for the delay in posting,  I've now returned home and attached for your reference the portion of my PGN file on 9. Nxe5 in the Nc3 line.  I started trying to write a post with an overview of my thoughts but realised there were too many thoughts to share and felt nervous that given my rating these detailed thoughts may not hold up terribly well.  Have a look through the file and perhaps we can discuss from there together  

CAVEATS
- I've kept in alot of the lines that I crossed during my original analysis and subsequently played through against or analysed with my laptop.  Apologies that it's fairly detailed, please let me know if it's not appropriate to include this level of detail in an uploaded file and I will remove accordingly.

- I've removed alot of my initial notes as they're a little embarassing.  I bounce between 2050-2100 and these middlegame/endgames are an opportunity for my game, therefore some of my assessments are potentially not correct.

- Based on point #2, my final assessment of equality in the resulting endgames may not be completely correct.  This is most likely in the decision I made for 16.. Bd6 in the 10. d4 line, hence I also provided another alternative I looked at in 16.. Bd6.  Very keen to hear the team's thoughts!

- I don't have Corrbase yet, relying only on MegaDB, Hiarcs book and an engine.  The move hasn't been played too often over the board, therefore it was often Hiarcs book that I would begin with and engine to follow when checking my thoughts from the board.

Overall Summary
1. Alot of my lines aim for a queenless middlegame where in black leverages his development and bishop pair to eventually either (a) recover material equality (b) trade off the dark squared bishop for White's knight and head for an opposite colored bishop endgame.

2. Most of the lines head into a queenless middlegame fairy early, with the exception of some lines beginning with 10. Qe3.  In this line, however, I believe black's generated play on the kingside can eventually force a queen swap and the resulting endgame looks equal.

3. The most challenging line for me was 10. d4, only played a couple times OTB.  The reason for this was the number of different positions that White head towards, with more straight forward play for black against the other move 10 choices by white.

4. 10. d3 has not been played previously in my database, however the engine through it up as an option while I was checking.  I haven't spent much time at all looking at this on a board but the engine was fairly optimistic in finding some early equality for black behind his superior development and piece activity.  Will look deeper!

Huggy