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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Spanish repertoire (Read 226104 times)
Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #510 - 03/08/16 at 13:22:49
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Hi.

Paddy wrote on 03/08/16 at 12:25:08:
The pgn link doesn't work for me; it throws up the message: "The requested URL's length exceeds the capacity limit for this server."

However, there is a work-around: compose a reply to the posting by selecting quote; then copy the notation that appears in the window, from "[Event..." to "...for white.} *" and paste it into e.g. a new game window in Chessbase, et voil!

Clever work-around. I will remember this.

Here is the file attached (will start attaching in the future).
  

Jaenisch_6_Qe2_with_8_d4.pgn ( 6 KB | 200 Downloads )
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Paddy
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #509 - 03/08/16 at 12:25:08
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Confused_by_Theory wrote on 03/08/16 at 10:30:45:
Hi.

Today I will finally get around to posting some analysis on the alternative to 8.0-0 in the 6.Qe2 Jaenisch, which is 8.d4. Notably a lot of the following analysis is focused on (8...Bg7 9.dxe5 0-0 10.e6 Qd6), this is because the alternatves at move 10 look to give white a fairly easy time imo.

After 10...Qd6 I had trouble settling on a line. Eventually coming around to the thinking that simple is probaby good I opted for a straightforward line as ml in the analysis. It is not inconceivable that one of the alternative lines is as good or better though.



Have a nice day.


The pgn link doesn't work for me; it throws up the message: "The requested URL's length exceeds the capacity limit for this server."

However, there is a work-around: compose a reply to the posting by selecting quote; then copy the notation that appears in the window, from "[Event..." to "...for white.} *" and paste it into e.g. a new game window in Chessbase, et voil!
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #508 - 03/08/16 at 10:30:45
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Hi.

Today I will finally get around to posting some analysis on the alternative to 8.0-0 in the 6.Qe2 Jaenisch, which is 8.d4. Notably a lot of the following analysis is focused on (8...Bg7 9.dxe5 0-0 10.e6 Qd6), this is because the alternatves at move 10 look to give white a fairly easy time imo.

After 10...Qd6 I had trouble settling on a line. Eventually coming around to the thinking that simple is probaby good I opted for a straightforward line as ml in the analysis. It is not inconceivable that one of the alternative lines is as good or better though.



Have a nice day.
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #507 - 01/27/16 at 17:41:14
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Confused_by_Theory wrote on 01/26/16 at 17:19:17:
What is it that gives white a little something after 21.Qe3? Both players look to have fairly solid positions.

Good knight vs bad bishop. I am the first to admit that objectively it isn't much, but humans don't defend flawlessly, and I guess in practice White would score nicely.
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #506 - 01/26/16 at 17:19:17
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Hello.

Ametanoitos wrote on 01/25/16 at 15:35:25:
Btw, do we have something against 3...g6? It seems that Carlsen works very hard to give this little Spanish line a main line status since smyslov's times.

Nothing about 3...g6 in the summary-file. Some faint memory tells me I've read about the move somewhere in the thread though.


Continuing with the Jaenisch discussion:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 01/20/16 at 00:30:10:
Now I believe that 13.c4 f5 14.Ng2 is more precise, e.g. 14...0-0 15.Bxc6 bxc6 16.c5 Be7 17.Bh6 Re8 18.f3 Bg5 19.Bxg5 Qxg5 20.f4 Qh6 21.Qe3. White has a little something.

What is it that gives white a little something after 21.Qe3? Both players look to have fairly solid positions.



I'm going to look a bit at 8.d4 (instead of 8.0-0). This is what I was intending to check before I found 8.0-0 (which I now think seems just about OK for black - if he knows his lines very well).

After 8.d4 black can play either 8...e4, which looks a bit weakening to me (after white's 9.Nh4).
or...
8...Bg7, when I will likely try and find some advantage after 9.dxe5 0-0 10.e6

Have a nice day.
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #505 - 01/25/16 at 15:35:25
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The key phrase is "in the practical sense". I don't want to propose a line which is objectively equal but Black has to defend with care and accidents can happen at f7 (as has happened twice in games of my students). Also, unfortunately I don't even think that after ...Be6 white can hope to find a reasonable idea which will increase considerably his chances in the opening.

The exchange variation or the various d3 systems are more of a serious field of study (where ideas to put black under pressure could potentially be found).

Btw, do we have something against 3...g6? It seems that Carlsen works very hard to give this little Spanish line a main line status since smyslov's times.
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #504 - 01/25/16 at 08:02:04
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There is an excerpt of Nikolaos Ntirlis' (aka Ametanoitos) new work available online.
This is what he says about 9...Be6 (p. 243):

Quote:
If it wasnt for this move I would have found it hard to recommend something against the Worrall that I find completely fine for Black, at least in the practical sense.

So if someone could refute 9...Be6, it would do much of the job.
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #503 - 01/20/16 at 00:30:10
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MartinC wrote on 01/19/16 at 13:35:35:
Yes, that looks much more human Smiley

Btw, it is the same line which I originally suggested for White against my Bd6:

Stefan Buecker wrote on 01/12/16 at 12:07:28:
White can decline the sacrifice, but after 11.d4 e4 12.Nh4 Bg6 13.f3 Qd7 Black is hardly worse.

Now I believe that 13.c4 f5 14.Ng2 is more precise, e.g. 14...0-0 15.Bxc6 bxc6 16.c5 Be7 17.Bh6 Re8 18.f3 Bg5 19.Bxg5 Qxg5 20.f4 Qh6 21.Qe3. White has a little something.

  
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #502 - 01/19/16 at 13:35:35
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Yes, that looks much more human Smiley Much more the sort of thing that might deter black too.
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #501 - 01/19/16 at 12:16:08
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Hi.

MartinC wrote on 01/19/16 at 10:01:14:
Those lines do also strike me as pretty horribly risky/unpleasant to try and play over the board as white! Much easier for black.


My general practical considerations on the positions after 12.d4 would be the following:

After 12.d4 White has passive pieces for quite long. Black on the other has very active pieces and will probably have for a forseeable future.
On the other hand black has some problems creating truly dangerous pressure and in the long term white's extra piece means he should (minimum) never risk losing most of the more simplified positions that can arise.
There is a lot of perpetuals and repetitions (definitely more then in the pgn above) in these positions.

A simpler choice (mainly for the otb player) compared to 12.d4 would perhaps be 11.d4, briefly mentioned in the pgn. If I am correct then there are not that many good alternatives to the continuation given and the end position there looks fairly riskless.

Have a nice day.
  
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MartinC
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #500 - 01/19/16 at 10:01:14
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Those lines do also strike me as pretty horribly risky/unpleasant to try and play over the board as white! Much easier for black.
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #499 - 01/19/16 at 08:58:19
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Hello.

Confused_by_Theory wrote on 01/14/16 at 19:27:21:
Indeed. I am checking 17.Be3 c5 atm.

Must have completely blacked out here. Was in fact checking:
17.Be3 Rg3 18.Rae1 Rag8 19.Rg1 f5 20.Rxg3 Rxg3 21.Bd2 c5 (only now c5 as 17...c5 is ??). Sorry for any confusion.

Here is some analysis of the reasonable lines I could find after 8...Bg4. Sadly I haven't found much of an advantage for white anywhere.



Have a nice day.
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #498 - 01/17/16 at 08:41:53
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I have my doubts whether a more patient defender - say, Kramnik - would have lost this game. Advancing with the h-pawn doesn't look good (moves 29 and 32). For most of its course, "drawish" seems a fair assessment. From old days in Biel, memories of Hbner - Ftacnik are dear, but is it more than just a daydream? I am not sure, was Fnfundfnfzig feiste Fehler actually a bestseller? Could the chess store clerks among the members tell us, please? Anyway, for an ambitious repertoire, 4.Nc3 appears to be a better choice.



  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #497 - 01/14/16 at 19:27:21
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Hi.

Stefan Buecker wrote on 01/14/16 at 15:22:49:
While I like 10...Bd6, the resulting position remains interesting. In your analysis, 17. Be3 (instead of the subtler 17.Bd2) could be tried in a game.

Indeed. I am checking 17.Be3 c5 atm.

Stefan Buecker wrote on 01/14/16 at 15:22:49:
Another option is 11. d4 e4 12. c4 Bf7 13. Nh4 h5 14. cxd5 Bxd5 15. f3 hxg4 16. fxe4 Be6 17. Qf2 or 17.Nf5. I haven't found a win, but Black has to defend carefully for a draw.

Ok. The more options the better. Will check this also.

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #496 - 01/14/16 at 15:22:49
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Confused_by_Theory wrote on 01/14/16 at 06:16:44:
I checked the 17.Bd2 move from my last pgn (post #483). The idea of the move is to put the bishop on it's probable best square and when black drives it away with e3, to try and win the e3 pawn at some point. It seems though that against the likely best way forward for black (Stefan Bcker's line from reply #487), white does not seem to have much.

While I like 10...Bd6, the resulting position remains interesting. In your analysis, 17. Be3 (instead of the subtler 17.Bd2) could be tried in a game. Another option is 11. d4 e4 12. c4 Bf7 13. Nh4 h5 14. cxd5 Bxd5 15. f3 hxg4 16. fxe4 Be6 17. Qf2 or 17.Nf5. I haven't found a win, but Black has to defend carefully for a draw.
  
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