Akavall wrote on 08/13/11 at 02:23:53:


I prefer Black here on account of his extra tempo, which I would not spend on ...Bg6.  I note that after the simple ...Rae8, in 22 games in my database, White scored 41%.  White at best will have to find a path to an even ending.

I realize that saying so is marginally off topic, but I reject Marin's recommendation of 5...exd4 and regard 5...Bxd4 as the best move. If Marin is right then you reach the very peculiar conclusion that if you play 3...Bc5 then you must be prepared to face the hair-raising complications of the Max Lange, which in general leads to fairly promising practical situations for White. That really runs counter to many decades of received theory.

Just taking with the bishop instead produces a game where White has chances for his pawn, but probably not quite enough to call full comp.  Further the practical challenge of preparing 5...Bxd4 is significantly less than preparing the Max. So take the pawn with the bishop, hunker down and play solid defense. Shift your pieces around and try to simplify. It's more natural and sound than playing with a well-protected white pawn on g7.

Honestly if Marin were right that Black after 3...Bc5 does best to allow the Max, then that would be a very stong argument for playing 3...Nf6 instead.  Which, by the way, I always do. 

To come back to the OP, of course  5...Nxe4 must be the best move. Why the blazes do you think you played your knight to f6? It's a fairly good rule of thumb in the open games that, given a chance to wipe out White's e-pawn without incurring obvious disadvantage, you should do so. Somebody needs to stop poring over openings manuals and go back to principles. Read Tarrasch.

This really calls attention to the folly of weaker players studying these elaborate repertoire books that are so popular nowadays. Does the OP know what Black's best is after 3...Nf6 4.Nc3?

White is threatening nothing and indeed has to look out for that exchange sac on f3. So what White must do is avoid that sac by playing Qh4-g3 when necessary. In the meantime White must finish development and initiate play on the black squares. Then chances are about equal.
What should make this line attractive at say U1800 level is that the combination of opposite coloured Bishops and all the heavy artillery creates attacking chances for both sides.

Your 14...Bg6 is an interesting idea as 15.Qg3 Bh5 16.Bh6 Qg6 17.Bf4 Nb4 also is good for Black. Best may be 15.Bf4 when after Nd4 I could not find anything less unattractive than 16.Nxd4 Qxd4 17.Bg5. But I haven't tried hard.

I've had quite a number of casual games in this line with White, where most opponents played 6...d6 or 6...0-0.

The critical line runs 6...Nxe4 7.cxd4 d5 8.dxc5 dxc4 9.Qe2 (9.Qxd8+ Kxd8 10.Rd1+ Bd7 is at least equal for Black) 9...Qd3 10.Re1 f5 10.Re1 f5 11.Nc3 0-0 12.Nxe4 fxe4 13.Qxe4 Bf5, when White obtains approximately equal play after 14.Qh4 or 14.Qf4 but does not get an advantage.

6...dxc3 7.e5 d5 8.exf6 dxc4 and now 9.Qe2+ or even 9.Qxd8+ are quite promising for White, and 7.Nxc3 (7...d6 8.Bg5) is also playable.

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 07/27/11 at 13:52:00:

In this particular case 7.e5 is to be considered, with reminiscences to the Danish Gambit.

Please note: 6.dc3 7.Nc3 transposes to C44, the Scotch Gambit.

The main line, as suggested by MetsFan's hierarchy, is 6....Ne4.

Theoretically, I think this is still considered to be equal. But Estrin used to play this stuff in correspondence, so it's pretty venomous.

(Note, I corrected 6.Ne4 to read 6...Ne4. Sorry if there was any confusion.)

I have a question in the Two Knights (by Transposition).

Last night, I was Black in the following:

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.O-O Nf6 5.d4 exd4.

Thus far, this follows every that Marin recommends in "Beating the Open Games".  Now, White plays the following:

6.c3

Not covered at all by Marin.  I checked the Rybka 4 database, in which all moves I considered plus 6...d6 appear to be played, including the move I played, and got KILLED with.  Which of the following should Black play?

A) 6...Nxe4
B) 6...dxc3
C) 6...d3
D) 6...d5
E) 6...O-O
F) 6...d6

All of the choices above were candidates in my mind last night except F.  I played:

6...O-O 7.cxd4 Bb4 8.a3 and I feel like Black has gotten tricked out of the ...d5 freeing move.  8...Ba5 appeared bad, so I, after about 30 minutes thought, did 8...Be7, and got absolutely killed after 9.e5 Ne4 10.d5 Nb8 11.Re1 Ng5 12.Nd4 c5 13.Nf5 d6 14.exd6 Nh3+ 15.gxh3 Bxd6 16.Nxd6 Qxd6 and I played on here as White didn't have a lot of time, and there was no energy to save for a later round, it was a rated club game.  White won roughly 20 moves later.

What does Black need to do different here?