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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Czech + Closed (Old) OR Schmid Benoni? (Read 12111 times)
Rue-64
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Re: Czech + Closed (Old) OR Schmid Benoni?
Reply #12 - 02/23/13 at 13:29:07
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After 6.Nf3 a6 7.Be2 b5 is interesting for blacks
  
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TN
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Re: Czech + Closed (Old) OR Schmid Benoni?
Reply #11 - 08/11/11 at 17:05:56
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[Event "Doeberl Cup Premier"]
[Site "Canberra AUS"]
[Date "2011.04.21"]
[Round "1.2"]
[White "Arutinian, D."]
[Black "Hacche, D."]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A44"]
[WhiteElo "2575"]
[BlackElo "2098"]
[PlyCount "81"]
[EventDate "2011.04.21"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "9"]
[EventCountry "AUS"]
[Source "Mark Crowther"]
[SourceDate "2011.04.25"]

1. d4 c5 2. d5 e5 3. e4 d6 4. Nc3 Be7 5. Bb5+ Nd7 6. Nf3 Ngf6 7. a4 a6 8. Be2
Nf8 9. Nd2 Ng6 10. Nc4 O-O 11. a5 Ne8 12. Nb6 Rb8 13. Bg4 Bxg4 14. Qxg4 Nf6 15.
Qh3 Qc7 16. O-O Rfd8 17. Bd2 Nd7 18. Nc4 Bf6 19. Qf3 Ndf8 20. g3 h6 21. Nd1 Nh7
22. h4 Qd7 23. Ra3 Qh3 24. Qg2 Qxg2+ 25. Kxg2 h5 26. Nde3 Be7 27. f3 Bf8 28. b4
cxb4 29. Bxb4 Nf6 30. Rb3 Ne8 31. Bd2 Ne7 32. Rfb1 Rd7 33. Rb6 Nc8 34. Rxa6 Nc7
35. Rc6 Na7 36. Rcb6 Na8 37. R6b3 Nc8 38. Na3 b6 39. Nec4 Rdb7 40. Be3 Be7 41.
axb6 1-0
  

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Arcticmonkey
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Re: Czech + Closed (Old) OR Schmid Benoni?
Reply #10 - 08/11/11 at 14:24:22
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TN could u put that game up on chesspub pretty please?

Cant seem to find it ... Sad
  
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TalJechin
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Re: Czech + Closed (Old) OR Schmid Benoni?
Reply #9 - 08/09/11 at 20:14:36
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MNb wrote on 08/08/11 at 20:39:08:
Still Black might want to avoid 5...Nf6 6.Nc3 Be7 7.Bd3 and prefer instead 5... Be7 6.Bd3 Bg4 7.Nbd2 Bg5.
And maybe even 5...Be7 6.Be2 f5 (Bg4 indeed doesn't make sense here) is to be considered?


Generally, black shouldn't play f5 too soon according to Palliser. As both a6+b5 or an early white f4 can be worth aiming / waiting for.


Btw, I wonder if the Full Snake Benoni is still playable? If the bishop is going Bd6-c7-a5 anyway, it probably shouldn't hurt to have the e-pawn on e5 instead of exchanging it on d5. But white's d5-d6 may be a problem...
  
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TN
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Re: Czech + Closed (Old) OR Schmid Benoni?
Reply #8 - 08/08/11 at 21:10:03
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I don't trust the Benoni Wall at all; the game Arutinian-Hacche, Canberra 2011, among others, is a model example of how to crush this line.

The Schmid Benoni is okay, but personally I would recommend 3...b5 or 3...e6 above 3...d6, more as a matter of personal preference than objective merit. In the latter, you can meet 4.Nc3 with the dangerous gambit 4...b5!?, and 4.c4 b5 brings you to a Blumenfeld Gambit.

An interesting move order trick is 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 d6 4.Nc3 e5, when after 5.e4 you have avoided the critical Bb5 and f4 lines due to the move Nf3, but ...Nf6 probably isn't Black's best developing move either.

Finally there is 1...c5 2.d5 d6 3.e4 Nf6 4.Nc3 g6, which may well be Black's best move order if he wants to get a Schmid Benoni since after 3.c4 he can play 3...e5 and decide whether to transpose to a Czech Benoni with ...Nf6 or remain in Benoni Wall waters.
  

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MNb
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Re: Czech + Closed (Old) OR Schmid Benoni?
Reply #7 - 08/08/11 at 20:39:08
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Still Black might want to avoid 5...Nf6 6.Nc3 Be7 7.Bd3 and prefer instead 5... Be7 6.Bd3 Bg4 7.Nbd2 Bg5.
And maybe even 5...Be7 6.Be2 f5 (Bg4 indeed doesn't make sense here) is to be considered?
  

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TalJechin
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Re: Czech + Closed (Old) OR Schmid Benoni?
Reply #6 - 08/08/11 at 18:08:14
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MNb wrote on 08/08/11 at 16:28:36:
Can't Black still play for ...Bg5 with 5.Nf3 Be7 6.Nc3 a6 7.a4 Bg4 ?


IIrc, white should postpone Nc3 for a few moves to be able to meet ...Bg4 with Nbd2.
  
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MNb
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Re: Czech + Closed (Old) OR Schmid Benoni?
Reply #5 - 08/08/11 at 16:28:36
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Can't Black still play for ...Bg5 with 5.Nf3 Be7 6.Nc3 a6 7.a4 Bg4 ? If in this (or another) particular case it's not a good idea Black still can play ...Nf6 anyway.
5.Nf3 Be7 looks more flexible to me than 5...Nf6, especially if Black heads for the Czech Benoni.
  

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TalJechin
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Re: Czech + Closed (Old) OR Schmid Benoni?
Reply #4 - 08/08/11 at 14:55:47
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I've also dabbled with the Czech but eventually decided to stick with the Dutch.

1...c5 has its drawbacks in the c4-square and early f4, but on the other hand it's more flexible vs the common e3+c3 systems, and after 1.d4 c5 2.d5 e5 3.e4 d6 white often goes for 4.c4 anyway (with a rare defence like the Czech many whites will have little experience in the ML positions and even less without the pawn on c4), but then 4...Be7 is a nifty resource, as many will continue on autopilot with 5.Nc3 only to run into 5...Bg5!

Instead, 5.Nf3 stops Bg5 but after 5...Nf6 black has avoided white's Nge2 set-ups. Not a bad pay off for a slightly risky move order.
  
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Re: Czech + Closed (Old) OR Schmid Benoni?
Reply #3 - 08/07/11 at 18:22:43
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Thanks for the replies.
Then it seems I can conclude that the Czech Benoni (1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e5) is better paired with the Schmid Benoni. ( 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 d6 4.Nc3 g6 )


(PS.
I had remembered reading in a thread that general repertoire questions like mine should be placed in General Chess category. In order not to bore to death more advanced players (or something like that Smiley). That was the reason for my choice of section...)
« Last Edit: 08/07/11 at 19:40:46 by HoemberChess »  

as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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Re: Czech + Closed (Old) OR Schmid Benoni?
Reply #2 - 08/07/11 at 17:46:29
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The problem with the pure 1...c5 lines are after 1 d4 c5 2 d5 e5 3 e4 d6 and now both 4 f4 and 4 Bb5+ should be something for white.

Palliser covers this move order in his "How to play against 1 d4" book, which primarily recommends the Czech Benoni.  I think you should look at this Smiley

I actually think the Schimd Benoni isn't that bad for black at all.  Sergei Kasparov is the man to look for, both for his games and his recent two part survey in some New in Chess Yearbooks which cover it.
  
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Re: Czech + Closed or Schmid Benoni?
Reply #1 - 08/07/11 at 14:46:48
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Well, I have sometimes seen the Schmid with early Nf3 considered as leading to =/unclear, while the Old Benoni seems to be the sort of thing that is everywhere considered as leading to +=.
  
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Czech + Closed (Old) OR Schmid Benoni?
08/07/11 at 14:31:38
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I am thinking on taking up the Czech Benoni as a backup defence versus 1.d4. (I find the Modern Benoni far too theoretical for that purpose. Smiley)
BUT if I start with 1..c5 then White can omit c2-c4 completely and place a piece (a Knight, for example) on the vacant c4-square, etc etc...

By now I have reduced my dilemma to a single question:
Which position is more playable from Black's point of view,
1. d4 c5 2. d5 e5 3. e4 d6 4. Nc3 Be7 ( if 4.c4 then 4..Nf6 )
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?
OR
1.d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 c5 3. d5 d6 4. Nc3 g6 ( if 4.c4 then 4..e5 )
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?


(If the latter, then I will start with 1..Nf6 2.<any move by White>=>2..c5.)
  

as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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