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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 5.Nb5 a6 (Read 6280 times)
BPaulsen
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Re: 1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 5.Nb5 a6
Reply #12 - 08/16/11 at 00:10:27
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Glenn Snow wrote on 08/15/11 at 14:37:11:
Quote:
in the title line, 5.Nc2 should make every English player happy!


I did mention that move in the thread and Palliser did cover it in the aforementioned book.  Apparently it's not so simple although White seems to have good chances for a small edge.  However, according to BPaulsen if Black knows his stuff he should be comfortable in all the variations after 4...e6 instead.


4...Nf6.

(1. c4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6)

5. g3 e5

5. Nc3 e6

re: thread topic

5. Nc2 is the preference in my file on this variation, leading to what I felt was += with best play. Black's position is still fully viable though. I like white's other fifth moves considerably less.
  

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IMJohnCox
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Re: 1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 5.Nb5 a6
Reply #11 - 08/15/11 at 19:35:26
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Richard's chapter was based around some magnificent game I played in the first round of an open tournament having just stumbled off a plane. 6 Nd6+ is theory's recommendation in various places, but I agree that 6 N5c3 and 5 Nc2 are harder to play against. My feeling was that Black was pretty much just fine in the line in the game.
  
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zoo
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Re: 1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 5.Nb5 a6
Reply #10 - 08/15/11 at 18:59:32
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Right, should have read better. Well, Nc2 is optically attractive, glad to hear Mr Palliser made it playable for Black. I spent some time over a wooden chessboard, but could not find a neutralisation of 3.d4
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: 1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 5.Nb5 a6
Reply #9 - 08/15/11 at 14:37:11
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Quote:
in the title line, 5.Nc2 should make every English player happy!


I did mention that move in the thread and Palliser did cover it in the aforementioned book.  Apparently it's not so simple although White seems to have good chances for a small edge.  However, according to BPaulsen if Black knows his stuff he should be comfortable in all the variations after 4...e6 instead.
  
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zoo
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Re: 1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 5.Nb5 a6
Reply #8 - 08/15/11 at 08:08:01
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in the title line, 5.Nc2 should make every English player happy!
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: 1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 5.Nb5 a6
Reply #7 - 08/15/11 at 05:15:41
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BPaulsen wrote on 08/15/11 at 03:56:15:
Glenn Snow wrote on 08/15/11 at 03:48:34:
Is there any article or book that shows these lines?


Very relevant surveys in the Chessbase Opening Encyclopedia.

If you don't want to buy it, then it's safe to say it's not particularly hard to work the continuations out with a database and engine. This is actually what I'd suggest people do anyway.


Thanks, good advice.
  
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BPaulsen
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Re: 1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 5.Nb5 a6
Reply #6 - 08/15/11 at 03:56:15
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Glenn Snow wrote on 08/15/11 at 03:48:34:
Is there any article or book that shows these lines?


Very relevant surveys in the Chessbase Opening Encyclopedia.

If you don't want to buy it, then it's safe to say it's not particularly hard to work the continuations out with a database and engine. This is actually what I'd suggest people do anyway.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
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Glenn Snow
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Re: 1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 5.Nb5 a6
Reply #5 - 08/15/11 at 03:48:34
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BPaulsen wrote on 08/15/11 at 03:43:46:
Glenn Snow wrote on 08/15/11 at 00:16:26:
Apparently I'm way behind.  After 5.Nc3 e6, both 6.g3 and 6.a3 are now considered solved?


From theoretical POV, yes. Theory has crystallized on each continuation.


Is there any article or book that shows these lines?
  
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BPaulsen
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Re: 1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 5.Nb5 a6
Reply #4 - 08/15/11 at 03:43:46
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Glenn Snow wrote on 08/15/11 at 00:16:26:
Apparently I'm way behind.  After 5.Nc3 e6, both 6.g3 and 6.a3 are now considered solved?


From theoretical POV, yes. Theory has crystallized on each continuation.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
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Glenn Snow
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Re: 1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 5.Nb5 a6
Reply #3 - 08/15/11 at 00:16:26
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Quote:
And of course if white uses 5. Nc3 instead of 5. g3 then e6 is fully satisfactory for black.


Apparently I'm way behind.  After 5.Nc3 e6, both 6.g3 and 6.a3 are now considered solved?

Quote:
I was beaten in a recent cc game after 6.N5c3!, after which I didn't like my chances.


Are you sure 6.N5c3 deserves an exclam?  Palliser's main line was 6.Nd6+ which of course he did think was totally fine for Black.  I was starting to think if White did play this way then he should meet 4...e5 with 5.Nc2.

  
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Re: 1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 5.Nb5 a6
Reply #2 - 08/14/11 at 22:20:28
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Glenn Snow wrote on 08/14/11 at 21:44:07:
Richard Palliser devoted a chapter to this interesting sequence in Dangerous Weapons: Flank Openings (chapter 6, "An Improved Löwenthal?").  Since it appears to be sound and aggressive I've been surprised to read almost nothing about it since.  Perhaps players of the white pieces are avoiding 3.d4 or maybe the system isn't quite as good as I think it is.  I'm curious if anyone has something they like for White or an explanation as to why it's not more popular.  (Or is it popular and I've been looking in the wrong places?)


I was beaten in a recent cc game after 6.N5c3!, after which I didn't like my chances.
  

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BPaulsen
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Re: 1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 5.Nb5 a6
Reply #1 - 08/14/11 at 22:08:43
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There's a more concrete reason to avoid 3. d4 that I've listed in a thread somewhere in this section. I don't remember where the thread is.

Edit: Found it.

Quote:
I posted this in a different thread, and I even e-mailed Semkov about it to pass it along to Khalifman so that it (hopefully) isn't missed in the revised edition of Volume 3A. I would be sorely, sorely disappointed if white's recommendation gets repeated without either significant improvements, or changing the preference (ie: 5. Nc3, 3. Nc3, or 3. g3)

1. Nf3 c5 2. c4 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. g3

More of a side-note, but Davies recommends this sequence as well in "The Dynamic Reti". It's too bad the upcoming sequence appears to be a complete equalizer with strong practical chances for black:

5...e5 6. Nb5 (6. Nc2 d5 =) Bb4+.

This is mentioned by Khalifman, but his primary recommendation leads to a position that may well be =+, because he doesn't give black's best follow-up.

7. Bd2 a6! (best, unmentioned) 8. Bxb4 (forced) axb5 9. Bd6 (forced) Qa5+ 10. Nd2 (10. Nc3 Ne4, 10. Qd2 Ne4 11. Qxa5 Nxa5 =+) Ne4 11. c5 Nxd6 12. cxd6 Qb4 with complete equality, possibly even =+.

So that leaves the secondary recommendation, but things are no rosier for white here either:

7. N1c3 d6! (unmentioned, but obvious) 8. a3 Bxc3+ 9. Nxc3 (9. bxc3 0-0 =) Be6 10. Bg2 (10. e4?! 0-0 with initiative, white has way too many weaknesses to cover) Bxc4 11. Qa4 Be6 12. Bg5 (12. Bxc6 bxc6 13. Qxc6 Kf8 14. Bg5 Rc8 15. Bxf6 gxf6 =) 0-0 =

The door is slammed shut on 5. g3 barring improvements.


And of course if white uses 5. Nc3 instead of 5. g3 then e6 is fully satisfactory for black.

Basically 3. d4 has been completely replaced by 3. Nc3 for now.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
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Glenn Snow
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1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 5.Nb5 a6
08/14/11 at 21:44:07
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Richard Palliser devoted a chapter to this interesting sequence in Dangerous Weapons: Flank Openings (chapter 6, "An Improved Löwenthal?").  Since it appears to be sound and aggressive I've been surprised to read almost nothing about it since.  Perhaps players of the white pieces are avoiding 3.d4 or maybe the system isn't quite as good as I think it is.  I'm curious if anyone has something they like for White or an explanation as to why it's not more popular.  (Or is it popular and I've been looking in the wrong places?)
  
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