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Normal Topic C43 Petroff: Symmetrical Variation Modern Attack (Read 6725 times)
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Re: C43 Petroff: Symmetrical Variation Modern Attack
Reply #8 - 09/05/11 at 07:37:34
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Kazzy wrote on 08/30/11 at 23:42:54:
Hi all,

I guess that White can improve with 23.Bf1 Kg8 24. Bc4+!? Kf8 25. b4 Nc2 26. Bb3
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This seems rather forced and Black finds himself in an unpleasant pin and there's not too much he can do. He may sacrifice a pawn on the Queenside to get rid of the pin but I guess it'll be quite difficult. As long as White avoids that Black can unpin without giving up material, White will be fine.


This is it! White is almost winning since Black is very nearly in zugzwang. From the diagram the machine evaluates +1.65 at depth 34 with the following line:

26. ... g5 27. h4 h6 28. e6 gxh4 29. Bd2 Ke7 30. Bxh6 Nxb4 31. Bg5+ Kd6 32. Bxd1 Kxe6 33. Bxh4 c5 34. Bb3+ Ke5 35. Be7 Nd3 36. Kf1 b5 37. Bc2 Nb4 38. Bb1 Na6 39. Ke2

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Re: C43 Petroff: Symmetrical Variation Modern Attack
Reply #7 - 08/31/11 at 02:35:28
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That's one of the lines given as += in NCO (Nunn, late '90s).
  
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Re: C43 Petroff: Symmetrical Variation Modern Attack
Reply #6 - 08/30/11 at 23:42:54
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Hi all,

I guess that White can improve with 23.Bf1 Kg8 24. Bc4+!? Kf8 25. b4 Nc2 26. Bb3
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This seems rather forced and Black finds himself in an unpleasant pin and there's not too much he can do. He may sacrifice a pawn on the Queenside to get rid of the pin but I guess it'll be quite difficult. As long as White avoids that Black can unpin without giving up material, White will be fine.
  
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Re: C43 Petroff: Symmetrical Variation Modern Attack
Reply #5 - 08/30/11 at 19:46:28
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MNb wrote on 08/28/11 at 12:23:25:
Doesn't this subject belong to the endgame section?


Well it is about a well known opening line!

MNb wrote on 08/28/11 at 12:23:25:
23.Bf1 Kg8 24.Kg2 Nc2 25.Bc4+ Kf8 26.Kg3 g5 27.f4 seems to win the pawn back, after which White still is at least slightly better.


After your line 23. Bf1 Kg8 24. Kg2 Nc2 25. Bc4+ Kf8 26. Kg3 g5 27. f4 Black can play: 27. ... Ne3 forcing 28. Bd3. Then Black continues: 28. ... Kf7 29. fxg5 Ke6:

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Again it is hard to see how White can make any kind of progress since the d1-bishop controls the h5-square and Black can put his knight on d5 and just ask White what his plan is.

In this line of Petroff you get an endgame with only 4 minor pieces right from the opening. So the GM who is preparing it as Black could analyze the endgame into pieces. This makes me wonder why Petroff aficionados (Kramnik, Gelfand) who deliberately head for slightly worse endgames in other openings (assuming Black is worse, which I don't believe) don't play this line? 3 possibilities come to mind:
  • White has a big advantage in this line, I just missed it (this would be sensational b/c White's idea has to be very non-trivial).
  • The endgame is drawn but White can deviate earlier and that is where Black's problems are.
  • The endgame is drawn and there are no deviations but 5. ... Nd7 draws even easier!
  
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Re: C43 Petroff: Symmetrical Variation Modern Attack
Reply #4 - 08/28/11 at 12:23:25
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Doesn't this subject belong to the endgame section?

23.Bf1 Kg8 24.Kg2 Nc2 25.Bc4+ Kf8 26.Kg3 g5 27.f4 seems to win the pawn back, after which White still is at least slightly better.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: C43 Petroff: Symmetrical Variation Modern Attack
Reply #3 - 08/27/11 at 22:48:44
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MNb wrote on 08/27/11 at 22:06:12:
Black's problems are perhaps not that small after 23.Bf1 (Rozentalis) Kg8 24.Kg2. Black's pieces are terribly passive and it is hard to defend against White's plan to invade via the dark squares.
As White I definitely would play on.


After 23. Bf1 Kg8 24. Kg2 Nc2:

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It is hard to see how White will make actual progress: 25. f4? Ne3+; 25. Bd2 Nd4; 25. Kg3 g5 or maybe 25. h4 c5 26. Kg3 Nd4 27. Kf4 Ne2+ 28. Kxf5 Nxc3 29. bxc3 Kf7:

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I don't see how White can break through and Black could have simply played 27. ... g6 as well.
  
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Re: C43 Petroff: Symmetrical Variation Modern Attack
Reply #2 - 08/27/11 at 22:06:12
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Black's problems are perhaps not that small after 23.Bf1 (Rozentalis) Kg8 24.Kg2. Black's pieces are terribly passive and it is hard to defend against White's plan to invade via the dark squares.
As White I definitely would play on.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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Re: C43 Petroff: Symmetrical Variation Modern Attack
Reply #1 - 08/27/11 at 22:01:45
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Indeed Yusupov gave that as leading to = in 1993, while some later sources said += or "though a draw is likely, White has some winning chances."
  
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C43 Petroff: Symmetrical Variation Modern Attack
08/27/11 at 21:35:51
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Everyone tells me that this line: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.d4 Nxe4 4.Bd3 d5 5.Nxe5 Bd6 and they mention the Timman - Yusupov candidate match of 1992 as a turning point (http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1143234,
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1143237). However it seems to me that after 19. ... Rxd2 20. Bxd2 Rd8 21. Bc3 Rd1+ 22. Rxd1 Bxd1

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Black should hold with little problems and I don't think the evaluation will change if White plays the bishop to another square on the 21st move.

Am I missing something?
  
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