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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez (Read 49824 times)
brabo
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #72 - 02/13/14 at 17:50:44
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Thanks Vass. That game shows pretty well the idea behind Nbd2. I don't have this game in my databases.

I've the feeling that I am never going to have an up to date database.  Embarrassed Sigh...
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #71 - 02/13/14 at 14:17:45
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brabo wrote on 02/13/14 at 10:04:52:
I noticed that the book Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez at least discusses and even recommends the line till move 10 but I don't know if Nbd2 instead of Nc3 is studied.


11.Nbd2 is covered briefly, but not the specific Rb1-b3-Bb2 idea you mention. Kosten considers 11...d6 (11...c5!? is given as an alternative) 12.Nb3 and 12.Rb1 c6 13.b4 in about half a page. However I havent really looked at that chapter yet since I was mainly interested in the (truly excellent IMHO) classical berlin chapter.
  
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Vass
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #70 - 02/13/14 at 13:28:00
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A correspondence chess game for 11.Nbd2 illustration may be:



There are some good ideas for white here.  Wink
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #69 - 02/13/14 at 10:04:52
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brabo wrote on 03/19/13 at 19:50:10:
I like your Bb7 which looks to be an improvement. Houdini gives 13.Bc2 but that looks nonsense if you want even a hint of an advantage. I would go for 13.Bg5 at least making the untangling a bit more difficult. I am not going to claim any advantage for white but the position isn't a dead draw either.

I tried it out in a recent game but wasn't really satisfied with the outcome of the opening.
Therefore after some lengthy analysis I now devised a new setup:
I noticed that the book Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez at least discusses and even recommends the line till move 10 but I don't know if Nbd2 instead of Nc3 is studied.
Anyway all this and much more can be found in my latest article: http://chess-brabo.blogspot.be/2014/02/fashion.html
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #68 - 12/12/13 at 14:37:46
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Quote:
I think Nc3 is a good move, so definitely the latter. In my view the c3 and d4 lines give Black good chances, but I suppose I made that clear in the book?

Thanks Tony. I can see now that Topnotch's apprehensions have cause ...
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #67 - 12/12/13 at 11:57:06
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White seemed to establish a crushing position fairly easily in Polgar-Nakamura yesterday, although it is possible HN hadn't read Tony's book, of course.
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #66 - 12/12/13 at 10:52:23
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Michael Ayton wrote on 12/12/13 at 01:20:42:
I'd be interested to know, Tony -- is the problem you see with Nc3 essentiallly that Black has no winning chances, or that you're in danger of coming second?


I think Nc3 is a good move, so definitely the latter. In my view the c3 and d4 lines give Black good chances, but I suppose I made that clear in the book?
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #65 - 12/12/13 at 01:20:42
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I've actually played 7...Bxd4 and 8...Qg5 against weaker players in quick games ... and won very fast!


Aha! A transpo trick! ...  Smiley

I'd be interested to know, Tony -- is the problem you see with Nc3 essentiallly that Black has no winning chances, or that you're in danger of coming second?
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #64 - 12/10/13 at 23:49:55
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Michael Ayton wrote on 12/10/13 at 01:15:09:
But I was going to suggest 4 ...Ng6!?. Maybe there's something wrong with this since it's rarely mentioned, but what? 5 d4 ed 6 Nd4 Bc5 7 Be3 Bb6 (7 ...Nh4!? looks like a one-trick pony?) 8 Nf5 0-0 9 0-0 d6 and is White's edge so serious? ....


I've actually played 7...Bxd4 and 8...Qg5 against weaker players in quick games ... and won very fast!

TopNotch wrote on 12/09/13 at 17:15:06:
one or two troublesome lines for Black to overcome if one needs to win against a much lower rated opponent.


Really I don't think you will have any problems against a 'much lower rated opponent', but these Nc3 lines are quite annoying when you play really strong opponents! Roll Eyes
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #63 - 12/10/13 at 18:26:51
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TopNotch wrote on 12/10/13 at 15:48:10:
Thx guys, I will take a look at both 4...Ng6 and 5...Ng6, although somehow I suspect that I've considered these already and found them wanting.

Tops.

Feel free to post your "problem" variations here!
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #62 - 12/10/13 at 15:48:10
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Thx guys, I will take a look at both 4...Ng6 and 5...Ng6, although somehow I suspect that I've considered these already and found them wanting.

Tops.
  

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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #61 - 12/10/13 at 01:15:09
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Vass beat me to it! But I was going to suggest 4 ...Ng6!?. Maybe there's something wrong with this since it's rarely mentioned, but what? 5 d4 ed 6 Nd4 Bc5 7 Be3 Bb6 (7 ...Nh4!? looks like a one-trick pony?) 8 Nf5 0-0 9 0-0 d6 and is White's edge so serious? ....
  
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Vass
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #60 - 12/09/13 at 19:54:32
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TopNotch wrote on 12/09/13 at 17:15:06:
...
Suggestions welcome.
... Smiley

5....Ng6!?
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #59 - 12/09/13 at 17:15:06
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I have been interested in the Cozio/Cozio deferred/Aronian complex for some time now, and have even employed it sporadically in my tournament games over the years. However,there are one or two troublesome lines for Black to overcome if one needs to win against a much lower rated opponent.

One of these lines goes: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nge7 5. Nc3 d6 6. 0-0 Bd7 7. d4 b5 8. Bb3 Nxd4 9. Nxd4 exd4 10. Qh5 Ng6 11. Qd5 Be6 12. Qc6+ Bd7 13. Qd5 with a draw by repetition.

Another is: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nge7 5. Nc3 d6 6. 0-0 b5 7. Bb3 Na5 8. d4! exd4 9. Nxd4 c5 10. Nf5 Bxf5 11. exf5 c4 Winning a piece, but at too high a price probably. After 12. Re1 I don't see how Black's King ever reaches safety.

Suggestions welcome.

Regards,

Toppy Smiley
  

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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #58 - 11/26/13 at 13:19:41
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Anonymous3 wrote on 11/26/13 at 02:54:24:
Can you post the game? I can't find it.


It was a quick game in the 13 Bxg7 note, 14. Bh6?! Qf6 15. Bxg5 Rxg5 16. Nd2 Qd4+ 17. Kh1 Rxf5 with an extra pawn, Guedon-Kosten/Aurec 2013.
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #57 - 11/26/13 at 02:54:24
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 03/20/13 at 20:12:41:
Schaakhamster wrote on 03/20/13 at 13:58:30:
Did you find a reasonable way to fend off the Nxe5 piece sack after 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. O-O Bc5 5. Nxe5 Nxe5 6. d4 ? I would love to play the classical (Berlin) but that line always put me off...

Yes, this is tricky, but I've recommended a line that I'm happy to play as Black, and indeed I even played this last Sunday!

Can you post the game? I can't find it.
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #56 - 03/21/13 at 14:59:58
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 03/21/13 at 13:41:33:
Schaakhamster wrote on 03/21/13 at 07:33:39:
interesting...

But don't forget this a DW book! Shocked


oh no problem... got a few of those so I know the concept.

But I promised myself no more openingbooks until I got a lot of non-openingwork out of the way  Grin
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #55 - 03/21/13 at 13:41:33
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Schaakhamster wrote on 03/21/13 at 07:33:39:
interesting...

But don't forget this a DW book! Shocked
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #54 - 03/21/13 at 07:33:39
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 03/20/13 at 20:12:41:
Schaakhamster wrote on 03/20/13 at 13:58:30:
Did you find a reasonable way to fend off the Nxe5 piece sack after 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. O-O Bc5 5. Nxe5 Nxe5 6. d4 ? I would love to play the classical (Berlin) but that line always put me off...

Yes, this is tricky, but I've recommended a line that I'm happy to play as Black, and indeed I even played this last Sunday!


interesting...
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #53 - 03/20/13 at 20:12:41
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Schaakhamster wrote on 03/20/13 at 13:58:30:
Did you find a reasonable way to fend off the Nxe5 piece sack after 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. O-O Bc5 5. Nxe5 Nxe5 6. d4 ? I would love to play the classical (Berlin) but that line always put me off...

Yes, this is tricky, but I've recommended a line that I'm happy to play as Black, and indeed I even played this last Sunday!
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #52 - 03/20/13 at 13:58:30
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 03/18/13 at 20:11:58:
Stigma wrote on 03/18/13 at 14:49:32:
I notice from the contents page released on Everymanchess.com that there's a lot of material for anyone who wants to try the Classical Berlin - more than 100 pages if you include the d3 Berlin coverage!

My fault, I'm afraid, I wanted to do a thorough job!
Regarding the Aronian stuff (also me!) I think it is very good. 5.Bb3 was played against me in the Top12 last year, but Black can easily avoid this if he wants.


Did you find a reasonable way to fend off the Nxe5 piece sack after 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. O-O Bc5 5. Nxe5 Nxe5 6. d4 ? I would love to play the classical (Berlin) but that line always put me off...
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #51 - 03/19/13 at 22:23:52
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I wonder about 9. d5 (instead of 9. Bb3), which was considered as leading to += by Iordachescu in Informator some years ago.
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #50 - 03/19/13 at 19:50:10
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 03/19/13 at 12:40:48:
brabo wrote on 03/19/13 at 07:32:54:
Anyway I thought during my preparation that this fresh idea would likely throw black quickly out of book (no OTB games yet played with it) while keeping chances for an advantage.

Always a good idea! What did you have planned if Black defers taking on b3 (by playing 12...Bb7)?

I like your Bb7 which looks to be an improvement. Houdini gives 13.Bc2 but that looks nonsense if you want even a hint of an advantage. I would go for 13.Bg5 at least making the untangling a bit more difficult. I am not going to claim any advantage for white but the position isn't a dead draw either.
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #49 - 03/19/13 at 15:23:29
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 03/18/13 at 14:10:24:
I played a rapid event yesterday and managed to test 3 of the critical variations that I recommended - one win and two draws, but I was clearly better in both of the drawn games. Smiley

Well - we hope for a good analysis in the 1.e4 subscription-section of these games  Wink
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #48 - 03/19/13 at 12:40:48
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brabo wrote on 03/19/13 at 07:32:54:
Anyway I thought during my preparation that this fresh idea would likely throw black quickly out of book (no OTB games yet played with it) while keeping chances for an advantage.

Always a good idea! What did you have planned if Black defers taking on b3 (by playing 12...Bb7)?
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #47 - 03/19/13 at 07:32:54
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 03/19/13 at 01:27:48:
brabo wrote on 03/18/13 at 20:37:53:
I was impressed by the following correspondence game

It looks odd to play 10...Na5 instead of 10...d6 (threatening ...Bg4), but I suppose this will transpose if White plays 11 d5 Na5, and now the odd 12 Re1. After that it didn't look as though White was ever better, and I suppose both players were playing Houdini's first choice? Roll Eyes

I also don't believe that the moveorder Na5/d6 really matters in this line which was 1 of the reasons I chose it to cut down the lines to study.
I didn't check if the played moves are Houdinis first choice. It is possible as Houdini 1.0 was released mid of 2010 and the game somewhere started in september 2010 . Anyway we all know that in ICCF games engines are normally used as it is permitted by the rules.
I am not claiming any big advantage with Re1 but I found the game smoothly played. White is afterall SIM: http://www.iccf-webchess.com/PlayerDetails.aspx?id=390188 Also I like that after the typical breakmove f5, whites rook on e1 stands nice + the knight can via e2 be transferred to e6.
Anyway I thought during my preparation that this fresh idea would likely throw black quickly out of book (no OTB games yet played with it) while keeping chances for an advantage.
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #46 - 03/19/13 at 01:27:48
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brabo wrote on 03/18/13 at 20:37:53:
I was impressed by the following correspondence game

It looks odd to play 10...Na5 instead of 10...d6 (threatening ...Bg4), but I suppose this will transpose if White plays 11 d5 Na5, and now the odd 12 Re1. After that it didn't look as though White was ever better, and I suppose both players were playing Houdini's first choice? Roll Eyes
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #45 - 03/18/13 at 20:37:53
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Although I never encountered the Aronianvariation in a serious game till now, I had recently a look at it as preparation for an interclubgame. I was impressed by the following correspondencegame in which i liked very much the plan with Ne2:
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #44 - 03/18/13 at 20:11:58
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Stigma wrote on 03/18/13 at 14:49:32:
I notice from the contents page released on Everymanchess.com that there's a lot of material for anyone who wants to try the Classical Berlin - more than 100 pages if you include the d3 Berlin coverage!

My fault, I'm afraid, I wanted to do a thorough job!
Regarding the Aronian stuff (also me!) I think it is very good. 5.Bb3 was played against me in the Top12 last year, but Black can easily avoid this if he wants.
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #43 - 03/18/13 at 14:49:32
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I notice from the contents page released on Everymanchess.com that there's a lot of material for anyone who wants to try the Classical Berlin - more than 100 pages if you include the d3 Berlin coverage! I can't tell who wrote those chapters though (apart from Cox writing the d3 Berlin stuff).

I'm also attracted to the "Aronian variation" with ...a6 and ...Nge7 - at least Black seems to get easy play if White doesn't answer very concretely. White has scored well with 5.Bb3 on my database - I guess I'll have to buy the ebook to see how they propose to solve it.
  

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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #42 - 03/18/13 at 14:10:24
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I played a rapid event yesterday and managed to test 3 of the critical variations that I recommended - one win and two draws, but I was clearly better in both of the drawn games. Smiley
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #41 - 12/21/12 at 21:25:40
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My copies arrived in the post this afternoon ... which means that it should be in the shops, too! Smiley
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #40 - 11/20/12 at 10:54:03
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Too mainstream and theoretical for the series Smiley They've 'only' got ~10-20 pages/idea.
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #39 - 11/20/12 at 10:07:07
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I hope they cover the 6...Bb7 Archangel!
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #38 - 11/20/12 at 05:14:45
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This book looks like a must have for a Club player that plays 1...e5.
  

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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #37 - 11/17/12 at 01:42:30
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I've seen the whole pdf and I'd say Tony and John's stuff is really good. Disclaimer - for every copy it sells I get nearer to the magic mark after which I get seven pence per book (or something; I may have the contractual details slightly wrong).
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #36 - 11/16/12 at 21:09:11
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I hope Markovich gets a shoutout with all that Classical Berlin stuff!  Also, is the 'open Chigorin' the Keres variation?

It really looks great.  Excited to see it.
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #35 - 11/16/12 at 18:36:47
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There is a pdf available now  / A


  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #34 - 11/13/12 at 10:02:18
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 10/18/12 at 20:00:43:
It still hasn't been sent to the typesetters! Roll Eyes

It has now, and I've just seen the final version so it should be out soon. Smiley
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #33 - 10/18/12 at 20:00:43
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gwnn wrote on 10/17/12 at 12:20:15:
Delayed until December Sad

It still hasn't been sent to the typesetters! Roll Eyes
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #32 - 10/17/12 at 12:20:15
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Delayed until December Sad
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #31 - 08/17/12 at 10:16:23
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See this is due out in September - any idea of the contents?
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #30 - 06/10/12 at 22:27:40
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 04/13/12 at 10:42:52:
Willempie wrote on 04/13/12 at 08:49:53:
In any case good luck with the book Smiley

Thanks! Smiley I've just about finished my 3 chapters, will try to find out how the other authors are doing.
Meanwhile:

TN wrote on 10/22/11 at 05:13:10:
c) 3...a6 4.Ba4 Nge7 - in my opinion it would be a crime not to cover this line or 3...Nge7


I quite agree! Wink


As would I, there are so few decent tomes on non 3...a6 lines of the Lopez. Most 3...a6 Lopez tomes want you to learn great long lines of theory containing such deep strategical ideas that they make blood leak from your ears thinking about them. This I think is why simpler ideas like the Berlin have become so popular with professionals and joe pawn pusher a like. I have always liked realitively simple ATTACKING ideas with Black which is why I would suggest Birds 3...Nd4 and Alapins 3...Bb4 as two ideas to look at. Both are not as bad as their rep suggests and both contain simple concepts to grasp.

CraigEvans wrote on 02/05/12 at 21:42:19:
.. I've been looking for ages for a good Dilworth book without success ...

Spanish (Ruy Lopez): Open - Kevin O`Connell - Batsford 1978

HTH
  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #29 - 04/13/12 at 10:42:52
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Willempie wrote on 04/13/12 at 08:49:53:
In any case good luck with the book Smiley

Thanks! Smiley I've just about finished my 3 chapters, will try to find out how the other authors are doing.
Meanwhile:

TN wrote on 10/22/11 at 05:13:10:
c) 3...a6 4.Ba4 Nge7 - in my opinion it would be a crime not to cover this line or 3...Nge7


I quite agree! Wink
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #28 - 04/13/12 at 08:49:53
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 04/12/12 at 12:11:17:
Unlikely, Ivan Sokolov also looked at this in the 'Ruy Lopez revisited', didn't he?
I believe there may be some lines for White in the book as well.

Well there are some interesting lines in the Berlin with Qe2 (Eg 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.O-O Nxe4 5.Qe2 ). Those are certainly more dangerous than their look.
There is also 8.a4 (iso 8.c3) in the closed, which scores heavily. The idea is to lure black into playing Bg4 before d4 has been played. Kasparov lost with it though, against Ivanchuk albeit in a quicky, so that may not be the best of advertisements.
And the d4 anti-Marshall, which is much more fun than the other antis, though I dont know if it holds up against the Likes of Leko.

In any case good luck with the book Smiley
  

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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #27 - 04/12/12 at 21:18:00
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najdorfslayer wrote on 04/02/12 at 17:04:32:
Matemax wrote on 02/15/12 at 14:17:25:
2 suggestions:

The Delayed Schliemann: 4...f5!?

The Hector-Traikovic-Gambit: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 Bb7 8. c3 d5


I think Ivan Sokolov was quite critical of the Delayed Schliemann in 'Ruy Lopez revisited'.


I remember analyzing the Schliemann Deferred when I qualified for the US Correspondence Championship in the mid-90's.  It's not as bad as it's reputation if Black responds to 5. d4 with 5...fxe4, as he would if 3...a6  4. Ba4 were not interpolated, as opposed to 5...exd4 allowing 6. e5.  Now after 3...a6  4. Ba4 f5  5. d4 fxe4  6. Nf3 Nf6  7. Bg5 (probably 7. 0-0 is critical) a position is reached that, again, without 3...a6 and 4. Ba4 interpolated, even Lasker defended as Black: see http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1380312

In conjunction with analyzing that game, but in the context of the Deferred Schliemann, I remember coming to the conclusion that 7...Bd6!? might be adequate instead of Lasker's ...Be7 which allowed Nc3 by White with a big edge (again, whether or not 3...a6  4. Ba4 is interpolated).  One thing about 7...Bd6 is that in one line of my analysis (I wish I could recall after 15+ years) I remember that the interpolation of ...a6 was somehow helpful to Black.

ADDENDUM: I didn't realize it but a game of mine from that US Correspondence championship with this very line is actually in Chess Base.  My opponent plays the inferior Nc3 against *my* ...Bd6 (according to ChessBase I'm first) but I must have been so enamoured of Lasker's play in his game in the Schliemann proper, that I in turn played the inferior ...Bb4.

Anyway here's the score if it's of interest -- I had to withdraw from the tournament but am sure I wasn't doing so well in this game anyway.  As for the move 7...Bd6 though, I see a 2400-player drew GM Gyula Sax with it in 2005, so perhaps it is indeed viable?

[Event "USA-ch13 prel 04 corr"]
[Site "USA"]
[Date "1996.06.24"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Reithel, Donald P"]
[Black "Jempty, Georges"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C70"]
[WhiteElo "2330"]
[BlackElo "2016"]
[PlyCount "27"]
[EventDate "1996.??.??"]
[EventType "tourn (corr)"]
[EventRounds "9"]
[EventCountry "USA"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2006.04.01"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 f5 5. d4 fxe4 6. Nxe5 Nf6 7. Bg5 Bd6 8.
Nc3 Bb4 9. O-O Bxc3 10. bxc3 O-O 11. f3 Qe8 12. Bb3+ Kh8 13. Bxf6 gxf6 14. Nxc6
1-0
« Last Edit: 04/12/12 at 23:22:48 by George Jempty »  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #26 - 04/12/12 at 12:11:17
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najdorfslayer wrote on 04/02/12 at 17:04:32:
I would like to see the lines
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Bc5 4.c3 f5

Unlikely, Ivan Sokolov also looked at this in the 'Ruy Lopez revisited', didn't he?
I believe there may be some lines for White in the book as well.
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #25 - 04/02/12 at 17:04:32
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Matemax wrote on 02/15/12 at 14:17:25:
2 suggestions:

The Delayed Schliemann: 4...f5!?

The Hector-Traikovic-Gambit: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 Bb7 8. c3 d5


I think Ivan Sokolov was quite critical of the Delayed Schliemann in 'Ruy Lopez revisited'.

I would like to see the lines
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Bc5 4.c3 f5
combined with
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Bc5 4.0-0 Qf6.

A friend of mine has had some great results as Black with these lines against some good ECF 160+ players.

I hope there will be lots of lines without 3...a6 and not lines where you have to wait for White to play 10 moves or so of theory before you unleash your 'Dangerous Weapon!'
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #24 - 02/15/12 at 14:17:25
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2 suggestions:

The Delayed Schliemann: 4...f5!?

The Hector-Traikovic-Gambit: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 Bb7 8. c3 d5
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #23 - 02/08/12 at 12:31:50
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White's normal route to an advantage is playing c3 and d4 in most mainline Ruy Lopez variations, so playing d3 implies a loss of tempo, and most likely equality. The earlier d3 is played, the more options Black has (which is why I like playing 3...Nf6 sometimes as it is astounding the number of players who play 4 d3 instead of the critical 4 0-0).
On the other hand I always used to play (later) d3 variations as White simply because I couldn't be bothered to learn all the theory! Roll Eyes
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #22 - 02/08/12 at 10:30:34
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About d3 or 0-0 first, is a give and take sitruation.
If d3 first black can play Bc5. If 0-0 black can play Nxe4 variation.
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #21 - 02/08/12 at 09:41:00
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@MNb

I'm not a big expert on the Arkangelesk and I don't have my DB here with me so I can't really comment on the other variation you gave, but I realise my comment was badly phrased.
I didn't mean to imply that the alternatives were easier for black, all I'm saying is, if you're white and you know you're going to play d3, why give black the chance to play a lot of different stuff when you can wait for them to commit to ...Be7 first? Unless of course I'm missing something, which is quite probable.
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #20 - 02/07/12 at 23:36:33
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spagh3tti wrote on 02/05/12 at 21:50:54:
Incidentally I think it is better for white to play 5.0-0 Be7 6.d3 rather than the immediate 5. d3 after which black can still go into an Archangelsk, or play 5...d6 and 6...g6.

Let me first admit that I hardly know anything about this, so perhaps I'm silly. I just wonder: are the Archangelsk and 5...d6/6...g6 that easy for Black here? Concrete:
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.d3
a) 5...b5 6.Bb3 Bc5 (Bb7 7.Ng5) 7.a4
b) 5...d6 6.c3 g6 7.Nbd2 Bg7 8.Nf1 O-O 9.Bg5 eg h6 10.Bh4 b5 11.Bc2.
  

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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #19 - 02/05/12 at 21:50:54
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TopNotch wrote on 02/05/12 at 03:52:23:
The unassuming 3...a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Be7 6.d3!? is quite poisonous (albeit slow acting poison) for black if he does not know exactly how to react.

Definetly a worthy candidate for a Dangerous Weapons book.

Tops Smiley   


That is quite true. Adams found himself in trouble twice last week in Gibraltar after 6...b5 7. Bb3 d6 8. a4 and he had to perform a couple of miracle save in the endings.
Incidentally I think it is better for white to play 5.0-0 Be7 6.d3 rather than the immediate 5. d3 after which black can still go into an Archagelesk, or play 5...d6 and 6...g6.
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #18 - 02/05/12 at 21:42:19
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The only reason I would likely buy this book is if the Dilworth, or Open in general (perhaps the lines with ...g6) were covered. I've been looking for ages for a good Dilworth book without success - such a strategically sharp and complicated endgame without any good explanatory text to my knowledge.

There is also a paucity of material on the open Ruy, and I'm not even entirely sure what the theoretical position on this opening is. I'd quite like to know though...

Would also be vaguely interested if the authors came up with something to sharpen up the 5.d3/5.Qe2 lines which can be so annoying...
  

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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #17 - 02/05/12 at 03:52:23
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The unassuming 3...a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Be7 6.d3!? is quite poisonous (albeit slow acting poison) for black if he does not know exactly how to react.

Definetly a worthy candidate for a Dangerous Weapons book.

Tops Smiley   
  

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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #16 - 02/04/12 at 20:22:55
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Anonymous3 wrote on 02/04/12 at 06:46:27:
If you aren't 100% sure which lines you are going to do, how do you know one of the lines suggested is right?

I'm looking at several lines, one of which is very probable, the others are possible. However, I admit to knowing next-to-nothing about the Dilworth if that helps narrow it down! Roll Eyes
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #15 - 02/04/12 at 06:46:27
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 01/28/12 at 16:29:21:
Bibs wrote on 01/28/12 at 13:26:54:
Ooh, you tease, you.

Well I only signed the contract yesterday, and I am still not 100% sure which lines I will do! Wink


If you aren't 100% sure which lines you are going to do, how do you know one of the lines suggested is right?
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #14 - 02/04/12 at 04:56:20
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 01/28/12 at 01:47:14:
TN wrote on 10/22/11 at 05:13:10:
Here are a few suggestions from me to get the discussion rolling:

Well one of them is right! Wink


My money is on the Dilworth
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #13 - 01/28/12 at 16:29:21
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Bibs wrote on 01/28/12 at 13:26:54:
Ooh, you tease, you.

Well I only signed the contract yesterday, and I am still not 100% sure which lines I will do! Wink
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #12 - 01/28/12 at 13:26:54
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 01/28/12 at 01:47:14:
TN wrote on 10/22/11 at 05:13:10:
Here are a few suggestions from me to get the discussion rolling:

Well one of them is right! Wink


Ooh, you tease, you.
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #11 - 01/28/12 at 01:47:14
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TN wrote on 10/22/11 at 05:13:10:
Here are a few suggestions from me to get the discussion rolling:

Well one of them is right! Wink
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #10 - 11/29/11 at 07:48:10
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Nope, that ...Nb4 hasn't refuted the line. I think that by playing b6 at some point always gives great comp for White but there are also other ways to play here. If you check the NIC Yearbook articles you'll see that the "Berlin Gambit" is getting more popular as time passes.

In the Nd4+d5 line there is a huge improvement over Cox's analysis that gives White the edge. Unfortunately a certain idea that GM Kapnisis has played provides an "easy" solution for Black (a ...Qb6 move) as it seems but i haven't check it thoroughly yet. My first impression is that Black is fine. But as you see there are lots of stuff that have been discovered here after Cox's book is out, so a publication regarding this variation seems a logical step to me.
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #9 - 11/18/11 at 22:47:19
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Ametanoitos wrote on 10/22/11 at 14:40:30:
The Berlin Gambit with 6.dxe5 is an obvious choice for me. Thereticaly quite poisonous in both versions (either accepted or not). I think GM Kapnisis' solution (a ...Qb6 move for those that want to look at it) would be my choice for Black.


Hasn't this line been "refuted" by 6...Nxb5 7.a4 d6 8.e6 fe6 9.ab5 Nb4! instead of 9...Ne7 ?
Black is scoring massively from this position, and engines are not impressed at all from White's chances.
And of course, Black may decline the modern way by 7...Nbd4 8.Nxd4 d5! with a very comfortable game.
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #8 - 10/23/11 at 08:23:09
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I think one could fill several volumes with DW in the Ruy. The whole opening is a minefield (or should I say mindfield).
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #7 - 10/23/11 at 05:37:07
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Ametanoitos wrote on 10/22/11 at 15:38:13:
Yes, of course but it cannot really be classified as "dangerous". I recall that the idea of b2-b3+Bb2 is the critical line against that ...Rd8 aproach. I agree with you that i would like to see analysis of this system in an up-to-date publication.


true enough...
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #6 - 10/22/11 at 18:26:22
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The only line I can think of with 6.dxe5 is 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.0-0 Nxe4 5.d4 Nd6 6.dxe5 Nxb5 7.a4 etc.

I must admit I thought Black was alright with simply returning the piece (7...Nbd4), but I don't know much about this line.
  

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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #5 - 10/22/11 at 18:21:24
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Ametanoitos wrote on 10/22/11 at 14:40:30:
The Berlin Gambit with 6.dxe5 is an obvious choice for me. Thereticaly quite poisonous in both versions (either accepted or not). I think GM Kapnisis' solution (a ...Qb6 move for those that want to look at it) would be my choice for Black.


What is the Berlin Gambit? Sorry, I've never really heard that name before.
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #4 - 10/22/11 at 15:38:13
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Yes, of course but it cannot really be classified as "dangerous". I recall that the idea of b2-b3+Bb2 is the critical line against that ...Rd8 aproach. I agree with you that i would like to see analysis of this system in an up-to-date publication.
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #3 - 10/22/11 at 14:57:53
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Shereskevsky's suggestion in the Ruy Lopez (C97), closed, Chigorin defence:

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. Re1 b5 7. Bb3 O-O 8. c3 d6 9. h3 Na5 10. Bc2 c5 11. d4 Qc7 12. Nbd2 Rd8

Have been looking at it for a while and it's a very interesting and sound approach.
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #2 - 10/22/11 at 14:40:30
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The Berlin Gambit with 6.dxe5 is an obvious choice for me. Thereticaly quite poisonous in both versions (either accepted or not). I think GM Kapnisis' solution (a ...Qb6 move for those that want to look at it) would be my choice for Black.
  
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Re: Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
Reply #1 - 10/22/11 at 05:13:10
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I wouldn't expect the contents to be available until just before publication. I'm not surprised that there's another DW book on this since the 1.e4 e5 DW book only had three chapters on the Ruy (the 5...Be7 chapter was very good, the 3...Nd4 was good but not as good as Sokolov's book, and the 5...Bc5 chapter is only dangerous for Black).

Here are a few suggestions from me to get the discussion rolling:

a) 3...Nf6 4.d3 Bc5 5.c3 - looks harmless but actually contains a fair bit of poison.
b) 3...Nf6 4.0-0 Ne4 5.d4 Nd6 6.Bc6 bc6 7.de5 Nb7 - very tricky, although theoretical improvements are needed in this line
c) 3...a6 4.Ba4 Nge7 - in my opinion it would be a crime not to cover this line or 3...Nge7
d) 3...a6 4.Ba4 d6 5.c3 f5 and 5.0-0 Bg4 - fairly tricky, albeit already covered by Taylor in a whole book
e) 3...f5 4.d3 fe4 5.de4 Nf6 6.0-0 Bc5 7.Qd3/Qe2 Nd4 - this is not only dangerous but also probably the theoretical solution to 4.d3
f) 3...a6 4.Bc6 dc6 5.0-0 Bg4 6.h3 Bh5 - maybe not dangerous enough but still worth a look
g) 3...a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Be7 6.d4 - considered harmless but if you can find a good novelty then its worth a shot
h) 3...a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 d6 8.c3 0-0 9.h3 Na5 10.Bc2 d5 - good old Gajewski Gambit still packs a punch
i) 3...a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bd3 d6 8.c3 0-0 9.d4 Bg4 10.d5 - maybe not dangerous enough but at least not as well explored as 9.h3
j) 3...Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 and 4.0-0 Nd4 - Little-known and hard for White to prove an edge
k) 3...a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Ne4 6.d4 b5 7.Bb3 d5 8.de5 Be6 9.Nbd2 Nc5 10.c3 Nb3 - little known but quite trendy
l) 3...a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Ne4 6.d4 b5 7.Bb3 d5 8.de5 Be6 9.c3 Bc5 10.Nbd2 0-0 11.Bc2 Nf2 - the Dilworth can be very tricky if Black is well prepared
m) 3...a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 0-0 8.c3 d5 9.ed5 Nd5 10.Ne5 Ne5 11.Re5 c6 12.d3 - Not as explored as 12.d4 but probably just as good; alternatively 12...Bd6 13.Re1 Bf5 14.Qf3 Re8 could be a good DW from Black's perspective

I find it hard to believe that the book is only 192 pages; I'm guessing it will be expanded to 300 pages once the final manuscript reaches the printers.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
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Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez
10/21/11 at 16:27:35
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Everyman has announced Dangerous Weapons: The Ruy Lopez. I'm surprised they would do a Dangerous Weapons book on the Ruy Lopez after already doing one of 1. e4 e5 which covered some Ruy Lopez options. Tony Kosten is one of the authors (along with John Emms and Jon Cox)! I was wondering if the authors could tell us more about what is going to be covered in this book?
  
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