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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Greatest Novel (Read 26887 times)
Stigma
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Re: The Greatest Novel
Reply #27 - 11/08/11 at 20:56:29
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 11/08/11 at 19:06:25:
I am surprised to find that the great majority of novels selected are English-language novels. I know, the novel is the product of the industrial revolution and the English led the way in that revolution. But still, only Anna Karenina and Crime and Punishment have been listed from the Russians, and what German novels have been mentioned? And nothing from the Spanish-speaking world at all so far?


Now that you mention it, Dürrenmatt: Das Versprechen is also a huge favorite of mine.

It's easy to start thinking very anglified in an English-language forum!
  
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MNb
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Re: The Greatest Novel
Reply #26 - 11/08/11 at 20:50:39
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Willempie wrote on 11/08/11 at 19:30:38:
Ie Dutch books longer than 250 pages tend to be utterly boring (despite what they keep telling you in school), while shorter books are often excellent (what we would call "novelles" to add some confusion).

I completely agree with the first part, but am not so sure of the second. In general I do not think very high of Dutch literature (way too much navel-gazing). The few books mentioned in this thread are exceptions.
On Kafka: I think higher of The Castle than of The Trial. I found the latter a bit generic. Btw - this is for Markovich - I couldn't detect character development in The Trial. In The Castle I could.
OK. German literature. I nominate Heinrich Böll, Group Portrait with Lady and The Lost Honour of Katharina Blum. I still have to read The Tin Drum though.
  
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Willempie
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Re: The Greatest Novel
Reply #25 - 11/08/11 at 19:30:38
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 11/08/11 at 19:06:25:
I am surprised to find that the great majority of novels selected are English-language novels. I know, the novel is the product of the industrial revolution and the English led the way in that revolution. But still, only Anna Karenina and Crime and Punishment have been listed from the Russians, and what German novels have been mentioned? And nothing from the Spanish-speaking world at all so far?

I don't know which is the best, but no mention whatsoever of Gabriel Garcia Marquez or any of the other great Latin writers just seems ... provincial.

Edit: I didn't notice that Alias mentioned 100 Years of Solitude (the English title) in his short list of great novels. And The Trial by Kafka was also mentioned. Still, this seems like a very Anglophilic list.

You missed Eco;)
It may have to do that most people in Europe are forced to read English literature in school. I know I was and hated it, so that I havent felt much need to read translated writers Wink

Plus not all countries have a great novel tradition. Ie Dutch books longer than 250 pages tend to be utterly boring (despite what they keep telling you in school), while shorter books are often excellent (what we would call "novelles" to add some confusion).
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: The Greatest Novel
Reply #24 - 11/08/11 at 19:17:30
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Btw, most literature critics (for instance, Lev Grossman, W.H. Auden, and many others) consider Lord of the Rings to be a novel. I suppose if you broke down categories, it's a bit of an epic novel, but it's still a novel.

I consider it one of the greatest  fantasy novels of all time and one of my personal favorites to read. But it's nowhere near my top ten novels of all time. Still, I'd be disappointed to see it left out of a "top 100 novels of all time" list.

  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: The Greatest Novel
Reply #23 - 11/08/11 at 19:06:25
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I am surprised to find that the great majority of novels selected are English-language novels. I know, the novel is the product of the industrial revolution and the English led the way in that revolution. But still, only Anna Karenina and Crime and Punishment have been listed from the Russians, and what German novels have been mentioned? And nothing from the Spanish-speaking world at all so far?

I don't know which is the best, but no mention whatsoever of Gabriel Garcia Marquez or any of the other great Latin writers just seems ... provincial.

Edit: I didn't notice that Alias mentioned 100 Years of Solitude (the English title) in his short list of great novels. And The Trial by Kafka was also mentioned. Still, this seems like a very Anglophilic list.
  
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Re: The Greatest Novel
Reply #22 - 11/08/11 at 16:45:11
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* Dickens, Bleak House
* Chesterton, The man who was Thursday
* Steinbeck, Cannery Row
* McCullers, The heart is a lonely hunter
* Greene, The human factor

Arguable the first two are no novels by the definition of some forum members. Smiley

  
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Re: The Greatest Novel
Reply #21 - 11/08/11 at 13:20:29
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Ulysses: http://www.dannydries.com/Ullyses/ch1-ulys.html
  
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Re: The Greatest Novel
Reply #20 - 11/08/11 at 12:32:52
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IMJohnCox wrote on 11/08/11 at 00:08:28:
I would go for Anna Karenina


Yes, I agree that this is a fantastic book.

Markovich wrote on 11/08/11 at 08:54:17:
I'll also nominate The Grapes of Wrath. Oh, and 1984 ranks high in my esteem.


Absolutely, there are just too many good books to be able to pick one.
  
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Re: The Greatest Novel
Reply #19 - 11/08/11 at 12:20:14
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Markovich wrote on 11/08/11 at 08:50:59:
I join in the opinion that The Lord of the Rings isn't a novel; for one thing there is no character development. But this work does seem to have a strong hold on many people's imaginations.

Yet I don't understand why. I started reading it snd became increasingly bored on the one hand, and on the other irritated by the continual modifications Tolkien kept making to the magical rules supposedly governing his imaginary world. The precise point at which I put it down, never to pick it up again, was where the pilgrims visit Giladriel (spelling?) and benefit from her heretofore untold powers. Frankly I was disgusted.

More critically, the evil that it conjures is a cartoon of evil; unlike in great works that consider evil, the evil here has no complexity and no association with ourselves. It is utterly unsympathetic. It's a stand-in for something that Tolkien believes to be evil; well big deal.

Well there's no arguing about taste. 
Still I think you oversimplify a bit. It is definately not as one-dimesional as you picture it. Plus a balrog is much cooler than a whale Wink
  
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Re: The Greatest Novel
Reply #18 - 11/08/11 at 12:06:47
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Markovich wrote on 11/08/11 at 08:50:59:
I join in the opinion that The Lord of the Rings isn't a novel; for one thing there is no character development. But this work does seem to have a strong hold on many people's imaginations.

Yet I don't understand why. I started reading it and became increasingly bored on the one hand, and on the other irritated by the continual modifications Tolkien kept making to the magical rules supposedly governing his imaginary world. The precise point at which I put it down, never to pick it up again, was where the pilgrims visit Giladriel (spelling?) and benefit from her heretofore untold powers. Frankly I was disgusted.

More critically, the evil that it conjures is a cartoon of evil; unlike in great works that consider evil, the evil here has no complexity and no association with ourselves. It is utterly unsympathetic. It's a stand-in for something that Tolkien believes to be evil; well big deal.


For once I agree completely with Markovich. The Ring series started as goodnight stories for his kids and they are still unrivalled in causing sleep...


However, I don't think anything else mentioned yet is even close to The Greatest Novel. Some of them are great novels, but the novel 'to rule them all' simply does not exist.
  
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Re: The Greatest Novel
Reply #17 - 11/08/11 at 10:53:46
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It's quite difficult to name the greatest novel. Some books I've enjoyed very much though:

  • To Kill a Mockingbird
  • What's Eating Gilbert Grape
  • One Hundred Years of Solitude
  • Catcher in the Rye
  • The Name of the Rose
  • Birdy
  • Lord of the Flies
  • 1984, and Animal Farm
  • The Trial


I wouldn't touch a book like Lord of the Rings and High Fidelity is much better than About a Boy.
  
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Re: The Greatest Novel
Reply #16 - 11/08/11 at 10:25:38
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Markovich wrote on 11/08/11 at 08:50:59:
I join in the opinion that The Lord of the Rings isn't a novel; for one thing there is no character development.

I'm not sure if I agree that character development is a requirement to call a book a novel, but I fully agree there is no such thing in LotR, a book I liked.

Markovich wrote on 11/08/11 at 08:50:59:
More critically, the evil that it conjures is a cartoon of evil; unlike in great works that consider evil, the evil here has no complexity and no association with ourselves. It is utterly unsympathetic. It's a stand-in for something that Tolkien believes to be evil; well big deal.

This is one of the main reasons I nominated Mr. Visser's Hellevaart. The main character is evil in a small bourgeoisie way - so he could very well have been you and me. He is developed throughout the entire novel.
Another reason is that the book spoofs that big fat thing of James Joyce.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: The Greatest Novel
Reply #15 - 11/08/11 at 09:44:51
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The thing I don't much like about LoTR is the effect its (objectively terribly silly) main plot had (still has?) on the rest of fantasy writing. 

Some fantasy must qualify as novels I think - Guy Gavriel Kay say is basically writing (good) novels with a little bit of magic thrown in. 

I'd be amazed if I'd read the best one so no vote Smiley
  
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Re: The Greatest Novel
Reply #14 - 11/08/11 at 09:40:03
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MNb wrote on 11/07/11 at 23:04:58:
Willempie wrote on 11/07/11 at 22:11:24:
Eco: The name of the rose

Now that one was a disappointer, just like the Fouceauld thing.

I liked it, but that may be because I am very interested in the middle ages.
Quote:

I hesitated between Karakter and Bint.

Bint is shorter, much better in school Wink
  
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Re: The Greatest Novel
Reply #13 - 11/08/11 at 08:54:17
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Since some are listing multiple works, I'll also nominate The Grapes of Wrath. Oh, and 1984 ranks high in my esteem.

O.K., one more deserving candidate: The Trial.
  
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