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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) IM Andrew Greetīs book against Pirc (Read 28639 times)
PatzerKing
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Re: IM Andrew Greetīs book against Pirc
Reply #20 - 12/02/11 at 17:39:06
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@IM Andrew Greet:
Thanks for your comment. From my point of view you did a great job with the book. I have played all my life 1.e4 and with Black I moved from Svechnikov Sicilian via Scandinavian to Pirc. So, I can give a personal opinion to almost every chapter:
1.      Scandinavian: 3.Nf3 is also my choice against this opening and also feared it when I played the Scandinavian with Black. I was happy to see that you choosed it.
2.      Pirc: I think the Austrian Attack is the critical try. The Be3 setup was a good choice because it is not easy to play against it and the main line is discussed a lot in other book. Especially your idea h2-h3-h4 + Rh3 against the “Umansky”- line gave me a lot of headache and for me it is almost a refutation.
3.      Modern:  Good choice but in some variation I have another opinion about the evaluation of the position but thatīs chess. But this was only in a few lines.
4.      Aljechin: I am happy with the Exchange variation with White so I hadnīt a look at your line. But I was surprised that you choose the Nf3-line.
5.      Philidor: I was very surprised about dxe5 and queen exchange. My first impression was “What???? This line should lead to a better position for White”. But after a discussion with a friend who plays the Philidor your choice seems to be quite well. +/= over a long period of moves.

So, in general I am very happy with the book and looking forward for your next projects. Thanks for joining the discussion about your book.
  
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Re: IM Andrew Greetīs book against Pirc
Reply #19 - 12/02/11 at 15:53:52
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Chessguy wrote on 11/28/11 at 02:28:41:
It might be that black gets decent play also after 8 0-0-0 Ng4 though. I suspect that 6 Be3 might not be the most critical move , though maybe good as a practical weapon for club players for which the book was intended.


I was surprised to read the above comment about the book being aimed at "club players". As an IM at around the 2450 level, my general rule was to analyse everything to the level at which I would prepare openings to use in my own games.
Throughout the book I have recommended quality main lines which have been tested at the highest levels. There were a few options such as 3.Nf3 against the Scandinavian and 7.Qd4!? in the Pirc which are not 'absolute' main lines, but which I considered interesting and promising enough to recommend. In the Pirc, I don't consider 6.Be3 to be in the least bit objectively inferior to 6.Bd3. When it came to deciding between these two lines, a big consideration was that 6.Bd3 has been covered so well by Khalifman, and I decided I would be adding more value to chess literatire by covering 6.Be3.

Anyway I'm pleased to see that the book is at least stimulating some discussion.
  
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Chessguy
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Re: IM Andrew Greetīs book against Pirc
Reply #18 - 11/30/11 at 01:58:26
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It seems both Houdini 1.5 and Komodo 3 prefers 11.. Nc5. If then 0-0-0 then maybe ..a5 followed by queen c7 or b6 threatening Bg4. Greet mentions Qc7 directly after 0-0-0 instead of ..a5 first. ..a5 can always be thrown in later I suppose. After 11.. Nsc5 12. 0-0-0 Qc7 13 exd6 exd6 14. Bd4 he says that it gave white a pleasant edge in S.Dvoirys-G. Laketic Chelyabinsk 1991. After 14.. Bxd4 15. Nxd4 then for example ..a5 16. Qc3 Bg4 and the computers assess this as pretty equal. Black is fully developed, but might have a weak pawn on d6. Whites pawns on g2 and f4 are also a bit exposed.
  
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PatzerKing
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Re: IM Andrew Greetīs book against Pirc
Reply #17 - 11/29/11 at 07:16:24
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@Chessguy:

9...Nfe4 is the move of the game Stoere-Hanison, 1990 that Greet gives in his book. the game continues like this: 10.Nxe4 Nxe4 11.Qb4 d5 12.Bd3 b6 13.0-0 Qc7 14.a4!

I donīt know what the silicon brain says about the position, perhps it is something like +=/=, but I donīt like the position. Letīs have a "human look" at it:
Normally in Pirc you change with Black the pawn structure in the way you like with c7-c6-c5, e7-e5, d6-d5,... In this position the pawn structure is almost fix. Only f7-f6 for Black and a4-a5 and c2-c4 is on the agenda. The white pawn moves looks easier to achieve. The white pieces are more active: Look at the bishops and the white knight is very stable when it comes to d4. The black knight on e4 isnīt stable, e.g. Rfc1 and c2-c4. With the black Queen on c7 this lokks preety akward. After seeing this game I donīt like the position after 14.a4!
  
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Re: IM Andrew Greetīs book against Pirc
Reply #16 - 11/28/11 at 22:04:11
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Ok so then you can play Nf-e4 in the line above instead of Ng4 right?
  
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PatzerKing
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Re: IM Andrew Greetīs book against Pirc
Reply #15 - 11/28/11 at 19:17:19
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Hi,

regarding the line:
1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Bg7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Be3 Nbd7 7.Qd2 c5 8.dxc5 Nxc5 9.e5 Ng4 and now 10.Bxc5 dxc5 11.0-0-0 Qxd2 12.Rxd2 Ne3 13.Bd3 Bg4 14.Be4 Nc4 15.Re2 +/= suggested by Greet is playable, but perhaps my negative evaluation of this position is, that I donīt like queensless middlegames.

@HgMan: I thought a lot about playing 5...c5 or 5...0-0. In general I am using the Pirc when I want to win against players Elo<2200 because the queens stay on the board and the different structures in the Pirc are not easy to understand and feeling about pawn structure, weak squares,.. is more important than knowing a theoretical line of 20 moves.
I choose 5...0-0 because the above mentioned idea fits more to 5...0-0. I have the feelimg that 5...c5 is more "drawish" than 5....0-0. Also I donīt like the Greet suggestion of 7.Qd4!? after 6.dxc5 Qa5 in the 5...c5 line.
But this is my personal opinion. In the 5...0-0 I play the setup with ...Na6,...c5,...Bg4. Analysed this a lot and have good results with it.
  
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Re: IM Andrew Greetīs book against Pirc
Reply #14 - 11/28/11 at 13:20:14
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I had an unattributed line in my notes—the Vigus must be the source of it. Of course, Vigus seemed to lean towards 5...c5 instead of castling. Does anyone have any sense of the Pirc fashions and whether 5...c5 or 5...0-0 is preferable?
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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Chessguy
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Re: IM Andrew Greetīs book against Pirc
Reply #13 - 11/28/11 at 11:38:22
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HgMan wrote on 11/28/11 at 02:34:00:
Chessguy wrote on 11/28/11 at 02:13:57:
Well Greet recommends to avoid it by 8 dxc5 saying on page 131 that black has reasonable chances to equalize after 8..Ng4! 9. Bg1 cxd4 10 Nxd4 e5. To me this at least as good for white as the variations arising after 8 dxc5 when I look at the variations with Houdini 1.5 and Komodo 3 and Critter 1.2.. I would in other words try the mainline 8. 0-0-0 there. 


1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Bg7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Be3 Nbd7 7.Qd2 c5 8.dxc5 Nxc5 9.e5 Ng4 10.Bg1 b6 11.0-0-0 Bb7 looks nicely complicated.


On page 131 Greet mentions that Vigus said that this is unclear that line you suggest. It indeed also seems very playable for black yes. Double edged.

  
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Re: IM Andrew Greetīs book against Pirc
Reply #12 - 11/28/11 at 02:49:11
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9.. Nf-e4 seems okay also in that last line of yours. I will have to take a look at Ng4 in that position first to consider that.
  
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Re: IM Andrew Greetīs book against Pirc
Reply #11 - 11/28/11 at 02:34:00
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Chessguy wrote on 11/28/11 at 02:13:57:
Well Greet recommends to avoid it by 8 dxc5 saying on page 131 that black has reasonable chances to equalize after 8..Ng4! 9. Bg1 cxd4 10 Nxd4 e5. To me this at least as good for white as the variations arising after 8 dxc5 when I look at the variations with Houdini 1.5 and Komodo 3 and Critter 1.2.. I would in other words try the mainline 8. 0-0-0 there. 


1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Bg7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Be3 Nbd7 7.Qd2 c5 8.dxc5 Nxc5 9.e5 Ng4 10.Bg1 b6 11.0-0-0 Bb7 looks nicely complicated.
  

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Re: IM Andrew Greetīs book against Pirc
Reply #10 - 11/28/11 at 02:28:41
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It might be that black gets decent play also after 8 0-0-0 Ng4 though. I suspect that 6 Be3 might not be the most critical move , though maybe good as a practical weapon for club players for which the book was intended.
  
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Re: IM Andrew Greetīs book against Pirc
Reply #9 - 11/28/11 at 02:13:57
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Well Greet recommends to avoid it by 8 dxc5 saying on page 131 that black has reasonable chances to equalize after 8..Ng4! 9. Bg1 cxd4 10 Nxd4 e5. To me this at least as good for white as the variations arising after 8 dxc5 when I look at the variations with Houdini 1.5 and Komodo 3 and Critter 1.2.. I would in other words try the mainline 8. 0-0-0 there.
  
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Re: IM Andrew Greetīs book against Pirc
Reply #8 - 11/27/11 at 23:45:15
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Are there reasons to avoid:

1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Bg7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Be3 Nbd7 7.Qd2 c5 8.0-0-0 Ng4 ?
  

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Re: IM Andrew Greetīs book against Pirc
Reply #7 - 11/16/11 at 19:58:36
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These lines look like a bit better for White to me. Certainly playable, but I am not sure Black has any real counterplay. Byrne's 10. Qd2, or Navarra's 10. a3 look interesting too.
  
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PatzerKing
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Re: IM Andrew Greetīs book against Pirc
Reply #6 - 11/16/11 at 12:35:38
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Yes, I agree with you about the whole setup with 6...b6, because also "Polgar-Smirin, 2000" doesnīt look very promising for Black.

At the moment I think about following the setup/game:

-> Pavasovic-Mrkonjic, 2010

1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Bg7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Be3 c6 7.h3!? and then switching to

-> Pavasovic-Graf, 2005: 7...Qa5 8.Bd3 Nbd7 9.0-0 e5 10.Qe1 exd4 11.Bxd4.

This looks playable for Black also I fear to get cramped on the kingside with f4-f5, g4-g5 at the right moment.
I have to think about a concept for Black how I can face this plan of White and getting counterplay.

I think in the game -> Pavasovic-Graf, 2005 11...Re8 was a little fault and the direct 11...Nc5 is more accurate. The main difference is that after 11...Nc5 the pawn on f7 is overprotected after 12.Qf2, so that after 12.Nxd3 cxd3 the threat e4-e5 isnīt such a problem like in the game.  Undecided


  
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