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Poll closed Question: what is your favorite move after : 5.Nbd2 ... ?
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*** This poll has now closed ***


5. ... f6    
  0 (0.0%)
5.... Bg4    
  1 (14.3%)
5.... Bf5    
  1 (14.3%)
5.... Be6    
  0 (0.0%)
5.... Nge7 (Moro. Var.)    
  5 (71.4%)
5.... Qe7    
  0 (0.0%)
5... a5    
  0 (0.0%)
5.... Nh6 (a recent idea)    
  0 (0.0%)




Total votes: 7
« Created by: Bubu13 on: 12/15/11 at 16:16:31 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Problem with the Morozevitch var. of the Albin ... (Read 23572 times)
tony37
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Re: Problem with the Morozevitch var. of the Albin ...
Reply #31 - 09/16/14 at 12:15:57
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to continue on my previous post, I think it's better for black to play Bh3 on move 7, I can't find a clear refutation here
but then delaying Bg2 with 7.a3 (or maybe 7.h3 in case of Bg4) looks very interesting...
  
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Aziridine
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Re: Problem with the Morozevitch var. of the Albin ...
Reply #30 - 09/15/14 at 22:11:03
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SWJediknight wrote on 09/15/14 at 12:36:11:
A) 5...Bg4 6.a3 (6.h3 Bxf3 7.Nxf3 Bb4+ 8.Bd2 Qe7, 6.Nb3 Bb4+ 7.Bd2 Qe7) 6...Qe7 7.h3 Bh5 (7...Be6 is well met by 8.b4).  However, White can get a queenside attack rolling here with 8.Qa4, e.g. 8...0-0-0 9.b4 Nxe5 10.Nxe5 Qxe5 11.Bb2.



11.g4 (Watson) is almost winning.
  
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tony37
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Re: Problem with the Morozevitch var. of the Albin ...
Reply #29 - 09/15/14 at 19:52:56
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against 5.Nbd2 Bg4/Be6 6.g3 Qd7 7.Bg2 O-O-O 8.O-O Bh3 I like 9.e6 Bxe6 10.Ng5
in all the other lines I could find something playable for black, but here white has an unopposed g2-bishop and I really can't find anything decent
b4 is often a good pawn sac: 10...Nf6 11.b4 /10...Kb8 11.b4 /10...Nge7 11.b4 /10...Be7 11.Nxe6 Qxe6 12.b4 but white has other good options as well
  
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SWJediknight
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Re: Problem with the Morozevitch var. of the Albin ...
Reply #28 - 09/15/14 at 16:41:43
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I think 5.g3 Nge7 is sound, but that White can return the pawn and get a slight edge (6.Bg2 Ng6 7.0-0 Nxe5 8.Nxe5 Nxe5 9.b3 as played by Ivanchuk against Morozevich in 2012)- this avoids Black's various attractive attacking lines that follow the attempt to disrupt Black's efforts at regaining the pawn with 7.Bg5.

The problem with 5.g3 Bg4 in my opinion is not 6.Nbd2 but rather 6.Bg2 Qd7 7.0-0 0-0-0 8.Qb3, intending 9.Rd1 rounding up the d4-pawn, and if 8...Bh3?! then 9.e6 follows, intending 9...Bxe6 10.Ne5 and pressure mounts against c6 and b7.  Partly for this reason, I prefer 5...Bf5, whereupon in the above line, 8.Qb3 can be met by 8...a6 since 9.Rd1?? Na5 wins the queen.

As far as I'm aware 5.Nbd2 Bg4 6.g3 is likely to lead to the popular line 6...Qd7 7.Bg2 0-0-0 8.0-0 Bh3- I don't deny that this is theoretically better for White, but I am more than happy with Black's kingside hacking chances there.  5.Nbd2 Be6 6.g3 is likely to come to the same thing.
  
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tony37
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Re: Problem with the Morozevitch var. of the Albin ...
Reply #27 - 09/15/14 at 14:45:17
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after 5...Be6 and 5...Bg4 I intend to transpose to the old main line with 6.g3 (having avoided the 5.g3 Nge7 line), Black has some active plans of course, but I doubt it is theoretically sound
  
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Re: Problem with the Morozevitch var. of the Albin ...
Reply #26 - 09/15/14 at 12:36:11
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I don't trust 5.Nbd2 Bf5 any longer because of the first line above: 6.Nb3 Bb4+ 7.Bd2 Be7 (or 7...Qe7 8.a3, and after 8...Bxd2+ 9.Qxd2 the bishop on f5 is vulnerable to Qd2-f4) 8.Na5 (Justesen-Anderson, email 2011) and I don't think much of Black's compensation after 6...Qe7 7.Nbxd4, e.g. 7...0-0-0 8.e3 Nxe5 9.Bd2 (the bishop on f5 proves to be a target).

Therefore I think Black's best options are:

A) 5...Bg4 6.a3 (6.h3 Bxf3 7.Nxf3 Bb4+ 8.Bd2 Qe7, 6.Nb3 Bb4+ 7.Bd2 Qe7) 6...Qe7 7.h3 Bh5 (7...Be6 is well met by 8.b4).  However, White can get a queenside attack rolling here with 8.Qa4, e.g. 8...0-0-0 9.b4 Nxe5 10.Nxe5 Qxe5 11.Bb2.

B) 5...Be6 6.a3 (again 6.Nb3 Bb4+ 7.Bd2 Qe7 is an improved version for Black over 5...Bf5 6.Nb3) 6...Nge7 7.Nb3 Nf5.  White has the better chances with accurate play (8.Qd3 and 8.g3 are among the most critical responses) but the position is complicated.
  
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tony37
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Re: Problem with the Morozevitch var. of the Albin ...
Reply #25 - 09/14/14 at 18:37:09
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Bubu13 wrote on 12/18/11 at 15:03:20:
I would like to point out a new idea in the Nbd2 Bf5 variation :
1.d4 d5 2.c4 e5 3.dxe5 d4 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.Nbd2 Bf5 6.Nb3 ... (I think that 6.a3 is better) 6.... Bb4+ 7.Bd2 Be7 8.Bf4 ... and now : 8.... g5 !? in order to use the Be7 (instead of Bb4+) I know that Raetzky/Chetwerick dismiss it, but look after : 9.Bc1 Qd7!? 10.Bxg5 ... (If 10.Nfxd4 OOO! 11.e3 Nxe5 ) 10....BxBg5 11.NxBg5 000 12. Qd2 Nxe5 13.OOO f6! 14.Nf3 Qa4! and i think that black can be optimist !? What do you think about it ?

but what about 5.Nbd2 Bf5 6.Nb3 Bb4+ 7.Bd2 Be7 8.Na5, and now for example 8...Nxa5 9.Bxa5 b6 10.Bd2 Qd7 11.e3 dxe3 12.Bxe3 Bb4+ 13.Bd2 Bxd2+ 14.Qxd2 Ne7 15.O-O-O
I also looked at 6.Nb3 Qe7 but here I think I found a strong exchange sac for white: 7.g3 O-O-O (7...f6 8.exf6 Nxf6 9.Bg2 d3 10.e3; 7...Nxe5 8.Nxe5 Qxe5 9.Qxd4 Bb4+ 10.Bd2 Bxd2+ 11.Qxd2 Rd8 12.Qc3 Qxc3+ 13.bxc3) 8.Bg2 d3 9.O-O dxe2 10.Qxe2 Bd3 11.Qd1!
  
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Re: Problem with the Morozevitch var. of the Albin ...
Reply #24 - 12/18/12 at 16:23:47
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Looking at those positions after 5.....Nge7.  I would have to go with 5....f6.  I have found a few games from 50 years ago where black play 6......Qf6 and seems to get a decent game.  Opocensky played it once and it is called the Janowski variation.
  
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tony37
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Re: Problem with the Morozevitch var. of the Albin ...
Reply #23 - 11/22/12 at 17:34:34
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Avrukh gives 5.a3 Bg4 6.Nbd2 Qe7 7.b4 but I think 5.Nbd2 Bg4 6.g3 may be better
  
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Re: Problem with the Morozevitch var. of the Albin ...
Reply #22 - 11/22/12 at 17:16:43
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After 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e5 3.dxe5 d4 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.Nbd2 I have used 5...Bg4 consistently with good results. Some of the theoretical lines used to dismiss this after 6.a3 Qe7 are old and not particularly convincing.

I don't know, honestly, what the true verdict should be on this line, so all that I can offer is my practical experience: my last two games using this line for Black were comfortable draws against mid 2300 level opposition. After the last one (where I was probably winning but took a draw because it was getting late and I wanted to sleep), my opponent told me that he was now doubting Avrukh's analysis. However, since I don't own Avrukh's book, I can't confirm this.
  
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Re: Problem with the Morozevitch var. of the Albin ...
Reply #21 - 08/29/12 at 14:03:01
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From the lines given so far, I still prefer 5...Bf5- it seems to me that Black has to accept a modest theoretical disadvantage but gets counterplay, whereas I don't like Black's position after 10-15 moves of the aforementioned game in the 5...Nge7 line.  Black is essentially relying upon White messing up in an endgame with a significantly-devalued pawn plus.

I tried out the 5...Bf5 6.a3 Qe7 line in a recent simul and lost, but I feel that I actually got a decent position out of the opening- my opponent just handled the complications better than I did around moves 10-15 and emerged with advantage.
  
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Bubu13
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Re: Problem with the Morozevitch var. of the Albin ...
Reply #20 - 08/29/12 at 12:30:38
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Yes ! I do agree with you ! In fact, this game doesn't help me to find a final answer to my initial question : what to do against 5.Nbd2 ... ?
1) to accept this ending with 8.... KxQd8 even if i'm not totally convinced by the resulting situation.
2) to try 5.... Bf5, 5.... f6 or 5... Be6 ? Undecided
  
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Re: Problem with the Morozevitch var. of the Albin ...
Reply #19 - 08/15/12 at 20:45:07
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Bubu13 wrote on 08/15/12 at 14:02:27:
And now, a recent game with one of the best french woman player defending the white side ! At the moment of writting, she is playing the French National championship at Pau (France) from the 14th of august to the 24th of august 2012.
This game is quite strange ! White seems to hold a clear advantage without too many problems ... Black has won but i cannot understand why !
Some ideas ?!



At a high level it appears to me that White lost due to some weak endgame play rather than as a direct result of the opening.  Notice how White was ineffective in launching counter play and allowed Black to use his king unopposed in support of  advancing his queenside pawns.  White never brought her king into play and the bishop was largely passive.
  
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Bubu13
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Re: Problem with the Morozevitch var. of the Albin ...
Reply #18 - 08/15/12 at 14:02:27
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And now, a recent game with one of the best french woman player defending the white side ! At the moment of writting, she is playing the French National championship at Pau (France) from the 14th of august to the 24th of august 2012.
This game is quite strange ! White seems to hold a clear advantage without too many problems ... Black has won but i cannot understand why !
Some ideas ?!


  
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Bubu13
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Re: Problem with the Morozevitch var. of the Albin ...
Reply #17 - 06/22/12 at 14:17:50
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Finally, i found an other idea to (maybe) save the day of the morozevich way of play : 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e5 3.dxe5 d4 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.Nbd2! Nge7 6.Nb3! Nf5 7.e4!? dxe3 8.QxQd8 ... and now : 8.... KxQd8 !? The idea is to keep the e5 pawn under the knight pressure. 9. fxe3 Bb4+ 10. Kf2 Nh6!? 11.h3 Re8 12.e4 Nxe5 and in case of 12.... BxNh6 13.gxBh6 the bishops pair is a compensation vs the wrecked structure ...
What do you think about this ?
  
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