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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Bird Repertoire (Read 40556 times)
Pcal
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Re: Bird Repertoire
Reply #40 - 08/12/14 at 00:25:30
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Been playing the Bird for quite some time now. I agree, there are specifics in the Bird where the extra tempo can nullify the bid for the advantage. However 1.f4 I think is a solid first move. Plenty of ideas in the Classical Bird to try for an advantage. (not so much in the well worked out "Queenside Fianchetto" lines.)  I'm also not so much of a fan of "Leningrad Bird" (yet a lot of people are) I think,  if Black plays 1...c5 to me...  if White continues with g3 & Bg2 it plays into strategies well known to the Sicilian player (Because of the KIA and Closed var's)  I'm with Taylor Bird analysis on approaching 1...c5 with reverse English ...e5 lines (or reverse Classical Dutch lines ) I don't think your average Sicilian players is going to be familiar with these lines. And these lines can have real bite.  Also of the unbalancing nature of 1...c5,  IMO few if any var have that I've looked at are subject to the "extra tempo get's in the way effect"  All this said.... Personally, I think 1...f5 (The Symmetrical Bird)  is one of the best responses for Black, these lines are just as complex as Symmetrical English lines..

Just my 2 cents 
« Last Edit: 08/12/14 at 09:56:20 by Pcal »  
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fling
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Re: Bird Repertoire
Reply #39 - 05/22/14 at 21:48:25
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I don't have an answer to your specific question, but IIRC, Watson has written a bit about the topic of reversed openings (I remember something about using the extra tempo meant putting a pawn on prise on h3 or similar). Basically, some opening systems are playable or good for Black because the moves are played in reaction to White's moves. When played reversed, the extra move might hurt because it gives away information that Black can use.

Also, I also guess that while they are playable for Black because they lead to equality (and maybe also unbalanced positions), as White most top players want to fight for an (solid) advantage, not for equality.
  
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Re: Bird Repertoire
Reply #38 - 05/22/14 at 13:17:33
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nyoke wrote on 12/03/11 at 20:54:38:
Malaniuk is right, of course.

Theoretically it would seem so easy to drop a tempo, but practically you always end up losing two...


As I'm considering to add the Dutch to my black repertoire I was wondering why not look at the Bird as well - being a "Dutch a tempo up".
It puzzles me that virtually no strong GM is playing the Bird and I must admit: I don't get it.   
Huh

Why is the extra tempo hurting <sic!> so much as to Malaniuk and the rest refraining from playing the Bird??

I understand that the Bird is no opening where you are theoretically playing for an edge, but neither is stuff like the London and still there are strong GMs who play those systems once in a while.

Thanks,
Torsten
  
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Sylvester
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Re: Bird Repertoire
Reply #37 - 12/06/11 at 21:49:16
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Now that I understand your situation a little better I could conclude with a comment about the Odessky book, 1.b3, which was mentioned in this thread. I think your only interest in this one would be Chapters 16, 17, and 18 (p.156 to 182).

Basically Odessky discusses the positions after 1.b3 d5 2. Bb2 Nf6 3. Nf3 Bf5 with two options:

I. preparation for e4
II. play after c4 (A12 positions)

The A12 positions may be an overlap in your White repertoire (via the Reti) but it may not be high on your priority list at this time. I hope that unclouds the Odessky option a little.

All the best!

  
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Re: Bird Repertoire
Reply #36 - 12/06/11 at 17:21:05
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Again: thanks.

Yes: the plan was to start 1...d6 with Black and experiment with a variety of options after that (further argument, perhaps, for exploring 1.d3). I don't have the Davies DVD or the Barsky book, but I've got a fairly good library of material to draw from.
  

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Re: Bird Repertoire
Reply #35 - 12/06/11 at 09:14:27
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Quote:
Looking at various Philidor/Modern/Lion/Old Indian kinds of ideas for Black


Have you considered 1...d6? It seems to be able to offer you the transpositional opportunities that include all of your interests from the Black side.

One of the first books to surface on this opening approach was

An Explosive Chess Opening Repertoire for Black by Yrjola and Tella

Since then Vladimir Barsky and IM Lakdawala have added to the literature in this area.

GM Davies has a DVD on 1...d6.

These sources identify a fine collection of pioneers who have led the way here and it has to be comforting to know that you are in the company of those who share a similar spirit to your own about chess.

In any case, I wish you a pleasant and rewarding journey.
  
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Re: Bird Repertoire
Reply #34 - 12/05/11 at 20:32:04
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Thanks very much! That's a great list and lots of food for thought. I've always been quietly interested in Benko's play, but so many of his contemporaries received more attention. Definitely worth a look.
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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Re: Bird Repertoire
Reply #33 - 12/05/11 at 20:08:37
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@HgMan
Quote:
Other than Larsen and Suttles, whose games should I be studying?


I'm not sure the following information will help you but its better to have info you can reject than no info at all.

In IM Jeremy Silman's book Pal Benko: My Life, Games and Compositions, IM John Watson has done Part 3 of this book (approx 130 pages) called Pal Benko's Creativity, an Opening Survey. I might be worth your time to thumb through this book beginning at page 435 to see if anything catches your attention. IM Watson explores GM Benko's White and Black repertoire.

Maybe you can get some leads about who to investigate by buying Neil MacDonald's Starting Out: the Reti, since it is the core of GM Keene's book. It's probably the most up-to-date overview of the Reti these days. The last chapter on how to deal with avoidance of the Reti might narrow your search.

In any case, the labyrinth of transpositions in this repertoire should give you some of that chameleon effect. And since you won't be too far from your Catalan, this may be the element you may really be looking for these days.
  
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Re: Bird Repertoire
Reply #32 - 12/04/11 at 21:50:10
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HgMan wrote on 12/04/11 at 21:46:02:
But I should just get over this and study the openings more carefully.

Before you get over it: is 1.g3 really offbeat? Isn't it White's best option to transpose to all kind of well known stuff like the English, the KIA and indeed the (Neo-)Catalan?
  

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Re: Bird Repertoire
Reply #31 - 12/04/11 at 21:46:02
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Yes: I think this is very much in the spirit of what I'm looking for. Something offbeat but flexible. Designed to take Black out of his/her comfort zone while confounding chess engine evaluations at the same time. I'm building a Black repertoire around much of Suttles's games. Finding an appropriate avenue as White is taking a bit more work.

I suspect my lone reluctance toward 1.g3 is that I have been playing the Catalan for quite some time and would like a change away from the bishop on g2—and I don't like the idea of inviting 1...e5. But I should just get over this and study the openings more carefully.
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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Re: Bird Repertoire
Reply #30 - 12/04/11 at 19:00:58
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In particular, the Benko - Larsen Opening (1.g3) has resurfaced with Chess on the Edge (Vols 1,2,3) and the DVD by Nigel Davies on 1.g3.

This stuff may be just old enough to be fresh again.
  
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Re: Bird Repertoire
Reply #29 - 12/04/11 at 18:44:15
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@HgMan
In the remote possibility that you have not looked closely at Flank Openings by GM Keene; are his 'old' repertoire suggestions worthy of a closer inspection now? This was the case for a young Neil MacDonald.

http://www.amazon.ca/Flank-Openings-Opening-Catalan-English/dp/4871878457/ref=sr...
  
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Re: Bird Repertoire
Reply #28 - 12/03/11 at 20:54:38
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Malaniuk is right, of course.

Theoretically it would seem so easy to drop a tempo, but practically you always end up losing two...
  
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Re: Bird Repertoire
Reply #27 - 12/03/11 at 10:59:27
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fling wrote on 12/03/11 at 08:43:05:
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 12/03/11 at 01:23:52:
Malaniuk always came to my mind when thinking of 1.f4. I know that Nakamura has played a bunch of blitz games on ICC using .f4, perhaps some of his early games could be useful too?


Wasn't it Malaniuk that didn't want to play 1.f4, despite playing 1.d4 f5 as Black, because the extra tempo was gonna hurt him (was it in Pedersen's book)? Or was it somebody else?

(Sorry, my memory has gone bad, and I sold the book)


I had the same recollection, and now supported by google:

Quote:
GM Alex Yermolinsky likewise notes that GM Vladimir Malaniuk, a successful exponent of the Leningrad Dutch (1.d4 f5 2.g3 g6) at the highest levels "once made a deep impression on me by casually dismissing someone's suggestion that he should try 1.f4 as White. He smiled and said, 'That extra move's gonna hurt me.' "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-move_advantage_in_chess


Btw, here's the game I mentioned
  
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Re: Bird Repertoire
Reply #26 - 12/03/11 at 08:43:05
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 12/03/11 at 01:23:52:
Malaniuk always came to my mind when thinking of 1.f4. I know that Nakamura has played a bunch of blitz games on ICC using .f4, perhaps some of his early games could be useful too?


Wasn't it Malaniuk that didn't want to play 1.f4, despite playing 1.d4 f5 as Black, because the extra tempo was gonna hurt him (was it in Pedersen's book)? Or was it somebody else?

(Sorry, my memory has gone bad, and I sold the book)
  
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