I have been looking a bit at the Fischer System lately (for White), and came up with an interesting idea. I don't think it's groundbreaking or anything, but an interesting practical weapon nonetheless. I thought that after 1.c4 c5 2.g3 g6 3.Bg2 Bg7 4.Nc3 Nc6 5.Nf3 e6 6.h4!? was interesting. My idea is that after the most played (and thematic) move 6...h6 we can play into the common isolani lines after 7.d4 cxd4 8.Nb5 d5 9.cxd5 exd5 10.O-O Nge7 11.Bf4 O-O 12.Nfxd4, etc.

My thought was that eventually White would grab a free tempo with Qd2, and that perhaps the insertion of h4/h6 favors White somewhat. Maybe White is a smidge better, or at least he can claim that he's reached a position that is somewhat atypical of the Fischer System. The only game to feature 6.h4 and 7.d4 is recent, and favored White for sure:



Black can play 6...h5 instead, but then maybe White should prefer 11.Bg5, I dunno, really just started to look at it. Thoughts?

I have a question, or perhaps, a proposal for discussion here --

What about this deviation by black on move 6... 


1. Nf3 c5 2. c4 Nc6 3. g3 g6 4. Bg2 Bg7 5. Nc3 e6

6. d3 d5

Before White has the chance to play Bg5.

Any thoughts ?

Yes, Watson's coverage of this line was quite good, and reasonably convincing from a practical perspective (like you said).

Ametanoitos wrote on 02/20/14 at 22:47:10:


This was always my opinion as well. When I looked at it a year ago or so, I thought White had annoying play and reasonable practical chances, but that Black could prove equality with precise play. Surprise!

Thank you, thank you, thank you people! 
By the way, looking at games like these, one may think they're not substantial. After all, draws on 13-th move?!?
In fact, a good correspondence chess player spends many, many days to analyze the posible continuations. And the fact that both players agreed to draw, after all, means that the position is completely equal. Equal, yes, but full of life for an OTB game. 

fling wrote on 01/13/14 at 16:30:58:

You won't be disappointed. Here are my last correspondence (mini) games:





This line seems to be completely harmless. I've spent hours and hours to find even a tiny edge for black or white, with no success. It seems my opponents came to the same conclusion. 

fling wrote on 01/12/14 at 21:40:33:


You said it here already:

fling wrote on 11/30/12 at 12:40:28:

Very instructive game you have dig up Vass!  Highlight the weakness of an early Qc1 with fast Rc8 and fast d5. Nd4 hits the temporary weakness on b3.

Hi
This is my first post ever on chesspub.
I got hit by 7.Bg5 a few weeks ago at local club championship. I very much suspected my opponent had Marvin grandmasters book as  7.Bd2 (or 0-0) would been more in my opponets playing style. I didn’t play 7.-h6 as I couldn’t slove 7.-h6 8.Bd2 b6 9. Qc1!?. White will follow up with 0-0 and standard a3, b4, Rb1 and asking black how his going to castle. OTB I couldn’t find any good way to castle for black with h6 target as knight will not be stable on f5 (after e4).   
I went for 7.-b6!? And my opponent played 8.Qc1 anyway but without pawn on h6 it was nothing for white (if 8.d4 I would have play 8.-h6! 9.Bxe7 Nxe7!?).

So maybe 9.Qc1!? improve on a3 in Vass corr. Game?   

Vass wrote on 11/30/12 at 13:42:52:


Right, missed that. Well, my plan is actually to use this system as Black as a refreshing change from the Botvinnik set-ups I have played recently. This analysis goes to show that White seems to have at least as many problems to solve as Black.

What about 14. b5 instead of 14. e3 as in the Henrichs-Fontaine game? The point is that the knight will be a bit off on a5, or on the pawn structure worse after 14 ...Ne5 15. Nxe5 dxe5. I found the game Thiede-Siebrecht, 2012 that continued this way (well, White lost after a blunder, and I am not sure it is better). It is at least different from the other games in which White has been run over on the kingside.

9.Rb1!? is a good try and maybe a novelty in this exact position. Nevertheless, after the logical 9....Bb7! threatening Nc6-d4, therefore 10.0-0 is necessary.. 10...0-0 11.a3 d6 (or d5) 12.b4 Qd7 and we're back on the tracks..
As for 11.Rb1 d6! 12.Qc1 I have found only two games which I combined in this one:





By the way, this year a new move (13.Ne1!?) was made by Liu, Chang (ELO: 2336, U18 at WCh, Maribor, Slovenia) in this known position:



Liu won, but not convincingly.. So, I think there are still some blank spots where improvements can be found.. 

EDIT: ...And no, Marin never commented on the position you mention.. 

fling wrote on 11/29/12 at 22:20:33:

Who knows? 
Maybe they just didn't want to draw the game after, say, 11...Na5 12.Qc2 Nac6 13.Qc1 Na5
Or maybe they feared of a possible white attack after 11...Na5 12.Bxh6!? Nb3 13.Qf4 Bxh6 14.Qxh6 Nf5 15.Qf4 Nxa1 16.Rxa1 where white definitely has some compensation for the exchange..
I'm sure that 12.Bxh6!? is playable over the board, but in a high level correspondence chess game white has to be confident of playing it. In other words, this position needs to be heavy analysed. What about 16...Qb8(!?) afterwards? 

I just started reading the English - Move by move and Giddins has not picked up on this move order subtlety. In fact, there is much praise for Marin's set-up.

John Bartholomew, sorry if I missed it, but have you covered this recently or will you perhaps do it? It would be great!

Promising move order for Black.  At first I thought 8...b6 9.h4!? Bb7 10.h5 g5 11.Nxg5 was worth considering, ala Radjabov-Ivanchuk, but then I realized we're just down a tempo compared to that game     I don't think White has much better than 9.0-0, which doesn't pose many problems.  Btw, in addition to 9.a3 Bb7, 9.a3 d5 should also be very good for Black.

Judging from the database it looks like a few good players have cued into 8...b6 in 2011 (IM Altounian the first to play it OTB?).

Definitely not easy to get an edge vs. the Fischer setup.  Probably the best strategy is to switch things up from time to time on move 6 (lots of White alternatives here) or 7 (7.h4!?), or even move 5 if you want to escape Marin territory.

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 12/06/11 at 10:17:16:

Completely over! 

(Just to be clear, this game is over, isn't it?  I'd hate to discuss a game in progress.)

Vass wrote on 12/05/11 at 16:10:04:


I remember the idea (hitting h6), but I haven't really looked at it in detail. Apparently, Marin might not have done that either. On the other hand, in some of the lines he looks at, I wasn't convinced that White had such an edge. The queen on c1 might still have to move, thus giving the tempo back. I don't remember on top of my head which variation it was. I have to check my notes.

Maybe Black is ok after all in these lines. I have actually been thinking of playing the Fischer setup even after looking at Marin's analysis.

Yes, Rb1 looks pretty thematic, either before or after castling.

Hi all!
As a first player in one of my recent correspondence chess games I followed the Jobava-Marin's approach to meet the so-called Fischer setup as it follows:

And here Marin gives only 8... 0-0 9. a3 (delaying 0-0 for some time) 9... b6 10. Rb1 and if 10... Bb7 11. Qc1! (N) gaining a tempo attacking the h6-pawn, followed by 12. b4 with some real chances for += 
Great!.. And I fully agree with him. But,... My opponent as black followed a slightly different move order:

And suddenly I realised that I was out of my preparation..  Where is my Qc1 gaining a tempo?!  Nothing left except 10. 0-0 0-0 11. Qc1 Na5 12. Qc2 Nac6 13. Rab1 d6 14. b4 Qd7 and black is OK. And where did I go wrong?