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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) why Classical sicilian not as popular as Najdorf? (Read 39749 times)
MartinC
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Re: why Classical sicilian not as popular as Najdorf?
Reply #15 - 01/20/14 at 12:19:28
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The 6 Bg5 Nardojf is very crazy for white too Smiley The RR is very much more controlled, especially the (vaguely) modern f3 based stuff.
(That's rather like 6 Be3 vs the Nardojf actually.).

The crazy anti Classical lines nearly all start 6 Bc4.
  
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gewgaw
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Re: why Classical sicilian not as popular as Najdorf?
Reply #14 - 01/20/14 at 11:33:59
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gramsci wrote on 01/20/14 at 11:22:52:
I've studied both variations, Najdorf and Classical, and I don't understand yet why the first is more porular:

-Nc6 develops a piece vs. a6, a high waiting move, but a mere pawn
-Kozul RR var. gives you the bishop pair, better ending and logical middelgame in front of the irrational 6.Bg5 Najdorf positons
-Dangerous plans against English Attack Be3 and  Karpov's Be2 connected to the a5 pawn advance

I've always played the Najdorf but the crazy 6.Bg5 (I hate the PP for black) is making me thinking it's time for a change


Very often the Nc6 is on the wrong square and would fit better on Xd7
  

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ErictheRed
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Re: why Classical sicilian not as popular as Najdorf?
Reply #13 - 01/20/14 at 11:29:53
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I think Ako nailed it; 9.Nxc6! takes a lot of the fun out of Black's position.  Then all of the other lines where Black accepts doubled f-pawns are certainly not a walk in the park, either.  Yermolinsky has written a lot about the Rauzer in his book Road to Chess Improvement, and of course in his book on the Classical Sicilian.  I think his Classical Sicilian book is good, but be forewarned: if you buy it wanting to play the line as Black, you will become very depressed.   

In principle I want to like Black's side of the Classical, but I couldn't find anything I liked against the Rauzer.  Still playable if those doubled f-pawns are to your liking, of course.
  
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gramsci
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Re: why Classical sicilian not as popular as Najdorf?
Reply #12 - 01/20/14 at 11:22:52
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I've studied both variations, Najdorf and Classical, and I don't understand yet why the first is more porular:

-Nc6 develops a piece vs. a6, a high waiting move, but a mere pawn
-Kozul RR var. gives you the bishop pair, better ending and logical middelgame in front of the irrational 6.Bg5 Najdorf positons
-Dangerous plans against English Attack Be3 and  Karpov's Be2 connected to the a5 pawn advance

I've always played the Najdorf but the crazy 6.Bg5 (I hate the PP for black) is making me thinking it's time for a change
  
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Lauri Torni
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Re: why Classical sicilian not as popular as Najdorf?
Reply #11 - 01/10/12 at 14:03:42
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Rauser has been difficult for black since 6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 a6 8.0-0-0 h6 was spoilt by 9.Nxc6!

I haven't found a single line that is rational for black. 8.-Bd7, e.g., leads to ugly positions that are easy for white and difficult for black.

Perhaps 7.-Be7 could be considered again? CP January 2012: Shirov-Jobava  6...e6 7 Qd2 Be7 8 0-0-0 0-0 9 f4 Nxd4 10 Qxd4 Qa5 11 Bc4 Rd8 and black survived. What is overall status of 7.-Be7?
  

1.Nf3! -  beat your opponent by killing his zest for life.
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MartinC
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Re: why Classical sicilian not as popular as Najdorf?
Reply #10 - 12/31/11 at 09:13:41
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Maybe, but the f3 style positions aren't so tricky for white to play surely? Not that you don't get those vs the Nardojf too Smiley
  
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Re: why Classical sicilian not as popular as Najdorf?
Reply #9 - 12/30/11 at 21:59:59
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Perhaps the Najdorf is more popular at the top, but for club players I think the Classical Sicilian would be a better practical choice. More likely than not, the white player has no idea what is going on in the double f-pawn positions. The same of course cannot be said when White just throws the pawns down his kingside, as in the Najdorf.
  
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Re: why Classical sicilian not as popular as Najdorf?
Reply #8 - 12/30/11 at 21:41:55
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Several years ago when I used to play 1. e4, I would much enjoy playing against the Classical than Najdorf. I played 6. Bg5 against both, and it was a pain to play against the Najdorf. Against the Classical, the plan of doubling the f-pawns and playing positionally against the bishop pair was easier to play against than the Najdorf.
  

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Re: why Classical sicilian not as popular as Najdorf?
Reply #7 - 12/30/11 at 21:05:51
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I also think it has something to do with Bg5 against classical but more for theoretical reasons, white players need less theoretical knowledge in Bg5 classical than in both Englisch attack Najdorf or in Bg5 Najdorf where both sides needs to know lots of concrete moves.
  
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Re: why Classical sicilian not as popular as Najdorf?
Reply #6 - 12/30/11 at 19:51:33
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gramsci wrote on 12/30/11 at 10:44:33:
Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 12/30/11 at 08:59:48:
gramsci wrote on 12/30/11 at 08:45:24:
Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 12/29/11 at 20:13:44:
The Rauzer (6. Bg5 against Classical) effectively stopped any popularity associated with the Classical. The positions can become quite difficult to win, or even draw against quality opposition. Not so with the Najdorf.

What 6.Bg5 Najdorf line gives black better winning chances than, for instance, Kozul's Rauzer with Bd7, b5 & Qb6?


7...Qb6, 7...Be7, 7...h6, and the new 6...Nbd7. I would rather play any of those lines than face the Rauzer.


7...Qb6: 10.e5 gives black a hard time
7...Be7: Perenyi Attack with 16.Rg1 favours white
7...h6: 11.Be2 covering the knight jump to g4 in the Browne System
6...Nbd7: 7.Bc4 suggested by Kasparov in his Najdorf DVD

I think they are all playable for black, of course, but not clearly better than the Kozul line of the Richter-Rauzer as the Russian School inclination to play the Classical Sicilian shows.


In 7...Qb6, the 10. e5 line changes almost every week. I am sure each advantage White gets will be countered by someone in an openings publication.

6...Nbd7 as well. If it is analysed constantly, it can be rectified. I think Quality Chess released a newsletter last month and spent several pages on recent developments on this line.
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
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gramsci
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Re: why Classical sicilian not as popular as Najdorf?
Reply #5 - 12/30/11 at 10:44:33
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 12/30/11 at 08:59:48:
gramsci wrote on 12/30/11 at 08:45:24:
Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 12/29/11 at 20:13:44:
The Rauzer (6. Bg5 against Classical) effectively stopped any popularity associated with the Classical. The positions can become quite difficult to win, or even draw against quality opposition. Not so with the Najdorf.

What 6.Bg5 Najdorf line gives black better winning chances than, for instance, Kozul's Rauzer with Bd7, b5 & Qb6?


7...Qb6, 7...Be7, 7...h6, and the new 6...Nbd7. I would rather play any of those lines than face the Rauzer.


7...Qb6: 10.e5 gives black a hard time
7...Be7: Perenyi Attack with 16.Rg1 favours white
7...h6: 11.Be2 covering the knight jump to g4 in the Browne System
6...Nbd7: 7.Bc4 suggested by Kasparov in his Najdorf DVD

I think they are all playable for black, of course, but not clearly better than the Kozul line of the Richter-Rauzer as the Russian School inclination to play the Classical Sicilian shows.
  
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Re: why Classical sicilian not as popular as Najdorf?
Reply #4 - 12/30/11 at 08:59:48
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gramsci wrote on 12/30/11 at 08:45:24:
Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 12/29/11 at 20:13:44:
The Rauzer (6. Bg5 against Classical) effectively stopped any popularity associated with the Classical. The positions can become quite difficult to win, or even draw against quality opposition. Not so with the Najdorf.

What 6.Bg5 Najdorf line gives black better winning chances than, for instance, Kozul's Rauzer with Bd7, b5 & Qb6?


7...Qb6, 7...Be7, 7...h6, and the new 6...Nbd7. I would rather play any of those lines than face the Rauzer.
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
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gramsci
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Re: why Classical sicilian not as popular as Najdorf?
Reply #3 - 12/30/11 at 08:45:24
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 12/29/11 at 20:13:44:
The Rauzer (6. Bg5 against Classical) effectively stopped any popularity associated with the Classical. The positions can become quite difficult to win, or even draw against quality opposition. Not so with the Najdorf.

What 6.Bg5 Najdorf line gives black better winning chances than, for instance, Kozul's Rauzer with Bd7, b5 & Qb6?
  
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Re: why Classical sicilian not as popular as Najdorf?
Reply #2 - 12/30/11 at 04:46:07
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I see. Thanks for explaining. Smiley
  
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Re: why Classical sicilian not as popular as Najdorf?
Reply #1 - 12/29/11 at 20:13:44
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The Rauzer (6. Bg5 against Classical) effectively stopped any popularity associated with the Classical. The positions can become quite difficult to win, or even draw against quality opposition. Not so with the Najdorf.
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
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