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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Scherbakov Book on Noteboom,Marshall Gambit (Read 126300 times)
CanadianClub
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Re: Scherbakov Book on Noteboom,Marshall Gambit
Reply #176 - 03/21/14 at 12:53:54
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The key position in the Noteboom (a+b passed pawn vs c4-d4-e4/e3 white center) is a fascinating one. I tried to play that lines with black some years ago but anybody as W seemed to want to accept the challenge. Lots of early a4 or Bg5.

Yesterday I saw a pure Noteboom game next to me in the tournament I am playing, and I enjoyed a lot watching that game (I blundered in my own game and I continued playing a lost position only to see it). Nice messy positions.

Sorry for the offtopic  Wink
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Scherbakov Book on Noteboom,Marshall Gambit
Reply #175 - 03/12/14 at 12:32:43
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MNb wrote on 03/10/14 at 20:20:06:
My idea is 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 c6 3.e3 Bg4 heading for a Stonewall with the bishop on g4, 3.c3 Bg4 and 3.Bf4 Qb6 eg 4.b3 Bf5. No symmetry here.


While not completely symmetrical, it was lines like 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 c6 3.Bf4 Qb6 4.Qc1 Bf5 5.e3 that put me off of the 2...c6 move order.  Obviously there's nothing wrong with Black's game, but it's hardly exciting. 

Anyway to each their own; your way and my way are basically what Black has to choose from if he wants to keep the option of playing the Noteboom after 2.Nf3.
  
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tony37
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Re: Scherbakov Book on Noteboom,Marshall Gambit
Reply #174 - 03/11/14 at 11:43:30
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Volcanor wrote on 03/11/14 at 08:37:41:
ReneDescartes wrote on 03/10/14 at 17:37:16:
And you'll die before you get to play against the aptly-named  Diehmer-Duhm gambit, except perhaps in Blitz.

What is the Diehmer-Duhm gambit?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diemer%E2%80%93Duhm_Gambit

and this is a whole site devoted to it: http://www.nic.funet.fi/pub/doc/games/chess/ddg/
  
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Volcanor
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Re: Scherbakov Book on Noteboom,Marshall Gambit
Reply #173 - 03/11/14 at 08:37:41
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ReneDescartes wrote on 03/10/14 at 17:37:16:
And you'll die before you get to play against the aptly-named  Diehmer-Duhm gambit, except perhaps in Blitz.

What is the Diehmer-Duhm gambit?
  
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MNb
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Re: Scherbakov Book on Noteboom,Marshall Gambit
Reply #172 - 03/10/14 at 20:20:06
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ErictheRed wrote on 03/09/14 at 16:12:33:
I made an old thread around here some years ago about how Noteboom players should handle 2.Nf3.  In the end, I decided on 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 e6, meeting 3.e3 with 3..f5.  I figured that I'd rather have the option of playing ...c5 against the London and Torre than the option of developing the bishop outside the pawn chain, which often seemed to lead to very boring, symmetrical positions--though 2.Nf3 e6 3.Bf4 wasn't much fun, either.

My idea is 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 c6 3.e3 Bg4 heading for a Stonewall with the bishop on g4, 3.c3 Bg4 and 3.Bf4 Qb6 eg 4.b3 Bf5. No symmetry here.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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ReneDescartes
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Re: Scherbakov Book on Noteboom,Marshall Gambit
Reply #171 - 03/10/14 at 17:37:16
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Agree. The point of the triangle idea is to launch a huge raft of pawns on the queenside after ...dxc4 and ...b5. If White holds back c4, this whole idea becomes impossible, and by trying to stick to the Triangle then you will have purchased the worst sides of the Slav and QGD in one wrapper. Rather than MNb's 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 c6, I would probably just play Eric's 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 e6 so as to reserve the right to shove my c-pawn in White's face in case of a Queen's pawn game. But that's a matter of taste; the main point is to be ready to shelve the triangle if you don't see c4.

And you'll die before you get to play against the aptly-named  Diehmer-Duhm gambit, except perhaps in Blitz.
« Last Edit: 03/11/14 at 02:13:26 by ReneDescartes »  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Scherbakov Book on Noteboom,Marshall Gambit
Reply #170 - 03/09/14 at 16:12:33
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I made an old thread around here some years ago about how Noteboom players should handle 2.Nf3.  In the end, I decided on 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 e6, meeting 3.e3 with 3..f5.  I figured that I'd rather have the option of playing ...c5 against the London and Torre than the option of developing the bishop outside the pawn chain, which often seemed to lead to very boring, symmetrical positions--though 2.Nf3 e6 3.Bf4 wasn't much fun, either.

If Black really wants to punish White for being so boring, he can try 3.Bf4 Bd6 4.Bg3 f5, which while not the best version of a Stonewall, at least isn't a London!  The good news for Black is that it's better than 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 c6 4.Nc3 f5?! 5.Bf4! for instance, because White's spent a tempo putting the bishop on g3.  Additionally, some hyper-aggressive g2-g4 options for White are bypassed.

Anyway that's what I came up with some years ago, though London players  went 4.Bxd6 or 4.Ne5 the few times I played this.
  
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Re: Scherbakov Book on Noteboom,Marshall Gambit
Reply #169 - 03/09/14 at 12:35:11
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The only ways to invite a Noteboom after 1.e4 are via c6 2.c4 e6, 1.e4 e6 2.c4 c6 and 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.c4 (this even has a name: Diemer-Duhm Gambit) c6.
After 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 c6 not 3.c4 Black should try to take benefit and look for ways to get Bc8 out of the pawn chain.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Scherbakov Book on Noteboom,Marshall Gambit
Reply #168 - 03/08/14 at 22:06:04
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Well, playing an early ...c6 and ...e6 when White isn't playing an early c4 makes little sense.

I'm not sure why the Winawer, or any other e4 defense, would be "consistent" with the Triangle.
  
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Re: Scherbakov Book on Noteboom,Marshall Gambit
Reply #167 - 03/08/14 at 20:26:00
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A question on a consistent rep..... I have started using the triangle as my d4 defense. To be consistent what would you play against white's offbeat d4 tries (london, colle, etc)? Is there a way to stick with the "triangle" or do you drop into other defenses?

Secondly, what would be consistent against e4? A Winawer French maybe but anything else?

Thanks guys.
  

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Re: Scherbakov Book on Noteboom,Marshall Gambit
Reply #166 - 08/21/12 at 03:28:21
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After a weekend of culling lines I found myself bogged down in (totally unnecessary) sideline choices. Out of 252 something separate PGNs to edit/sort I stalled around 1/4 of the way through.

Onwared, imperterritus.
  
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Re: Scherbakov Book on Noteboom,Marshall Gambit
Reply #165 - 08/13/12 at 13:14:26
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yes, i snagged the pgn when downloading the pgn so i've been culling it in chessbase 11. learning a lot!  i have a tournament in 30 days and i'm torn about trying to incorporate all of this in that time, or just the high level mainline. will see how far i get this week.
  
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Re: Scherbakov Book on Noteboom,Marshall Gambit
Reply #164 - 08/12/12 at 05:20:56
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I've bought the ebook version (there is a pgn), imported it in CPT and trim variations from here.

This is probably quicker, and certainly less tedious...
  

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Re: Scherbakov Book on Noteboom,Marshall Gambit
Reply #163 - 08/11/12 at 22:13:19
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I just bought the eBook and am about half-way through culling the lines for a repertoire that I can load into Chess Positional Trainer and practice with.

My thoughts: The book is a beast! I have been using a Noteboom repertoire built from the author's chesspublishing texts and this text, in my opinion, is well worth the money for the additional material!

I am not through the book yet so these questions may be premature, but I'll ask anyway...

Would like to know: If I were to make the Triangle text the foundation for my repertoire against 1.d4, do I need to supplement it with any additional material not found in the book (say, for a d4 special of some kind)?

Would like to know: Are there synergistic repertoires against 1.Nf3 and 1.c4 that would "make sense" to learn from an efficiency viewpoint. This Triangle system is massive, I'd like to get the most mileage from learning it.

What I play now:

White: Botvinnik English, and sometimes 1.e4 heading to the "Big Clamp" if I want to change it up.

Black v. 1.e4: Caro-Kann
Black v. 1.d4: 1.... c6 hoping for CK and lately the Noteboom sometimes
Black v. 1.c4: 1..../e5/2.d6/3.Nc6 or Be7
Black v. 1.Nf3: 1....c6

Thanks for any thoughts. Making repertoire PGNs is so tedious for me, I'd gladly pay someone to fix all mine for me. May have to go back to my coach but I haven't done lessons in a year.
« Last Edit: 08/11/12 at 23:24:15 by jhbchess »  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Scherbakov Book on Noteboom,Marshall Gambit
Reply #162 - 07/19/12 at 15:32:09
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Quote:
And with 2...e6 i have a logical problem. The d5-pawn is not under pressure but you waste move to cover him and block your own bishop.



Well Tullius, chess is a curious game.  While 2...e6 spends a tempo, blocks in the light squared Bishop, and protects the d5-pawn, it does promote Kingside development.  On the other hand, 2...c6 spends a tempo, takes a good square away from the Queen's Knight, protects the d5-pawn, and only helps the Queen to develop along the d8-a5 diaganol.

So I'm not sure which is better from a "logical" standpoint.
  
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