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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Concealed From (Read 12158 times)
Seth_Xoma
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Re: Concealed From
Reply #12 - 01/09/12 at 00:31:08
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Was I the only one who clicked this thread to see what was concealed from whom?  Wink
  
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Jonathan Tait
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Re: Concealed From
Reply #11 - 01/07/12 at 18:41:03
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TalJechin wrote on 01/07/12 at 17:46:13:
Should one say it's a Lisitsin a tempo down instead?


Or a tempo up – 1 Nf3 f5 2 e4 fxe4 3 Ng1?!? Wink
  

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TalJechin
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Re: Concealed From
Reply #10 - 01/07/12 at 17:46:13
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Jonathan Tait wrote on 01/07/12 at 16:29:14:
Markovich wrote on 01/07/12 at 02:23:16:
given that Black is a tempo short of a Staunton Gambit


Not really, given that ...d7-d6 is the main point of Black's opening – the "extra" move d2-d4 rules that out in the Staunton.


Should one say it's a Lisitsin a tempo down instead?
  
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Jonathan Tait
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Re: Concealed From
Reply #9 - 01/07/12 at 16:31:46
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Fllg wrote on 01/06/12 at 14:34:40:
If I remember correctly in one of the last editions of "Kaissiber" was an article where the conclusion was that white is better after 4.h3.

EDIT:

It´s in Kaissiber 36. The Author Volker Hergert concludes that White gets a clear advantage 4.h3! d6 5.d4 dxe5 6.d5 e4!? 7.dxc6! Bd6 8.Qd2!


Okay. I only remember Stefan's original articles in Myers Openings Bulletin and Gambit 59 (whenever they were). Still, I've scored quite a few points with this line, even if I now have to give it up.
  

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Jonathan Tait
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Re: Concealed From
Reply #8 - 01/07/12 at 16:29:14
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Markovich wrote on 01/07/12 at 02:23:16:
given that Black is a tempo short of a Staunton Gambit


Not really, given that ...d7-d6 is the main point of Black's opening – the "extra" move d2-d4 rules that out in the Staunton.
  

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Re: Concealed From
Reply #7 - 01/07/12 at 15:52:41
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Why += ? I have always thought the From is =.
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: Concealed From
Reply #6 - 01/07/12 at 09:03:49
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The variation which Fllg refers to can be found in Kaissiber #36, pp. 15-35: 1.f4 e5 2.fxe5 d6 3.exd6 Bxd6 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.d4 0-0 7.e4 Bg4 8. Be3 Nxe4 9.Nxe4 Qe7 10.Bd3 f5 11.Nxd6 Qxe3+ 12.Qe2 Qxe2+ 13.Kxe2 cxd6 14.Bc4+ Kh8 15.c3

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For example: 15...Rac8 16.Bb3 Rce8+ 17.Kf2 Bxf3 18.Kxf3 g6 followed by Kg7-f6. On the six pages covering 4...Nf6! there are many alternatives for both sides, for example Black can try 8...Re8 or 8...Qe7 or 7...Bb4. At the moment White seems to be slightly better, but that isn't necessarily the last word in this complicated stuff. Perfectly playable for both sides.   
  
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Fllg
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Re: Concealed From
Reply #5 - 01/07/12 at 08:28:55
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MNb wrote on 01/06/12 at 21:56:31:
Not, it isn't. 5.Nc3! (Larsen) promises some advantage acc. to the article.


The conclusion in this line after move 18 was (roughly translated from german) "White has slightly better chances. [...] But it shouldn´t be hard for Black to defend the position."

White is better but Black is okay does not exclude each other.  Wink

It´s another question if this is attractive for the gambiteer. For me it´s not.

  
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TN
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Re: Concealed From
Reply #4 - 01/07/12 at 04:44:09
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Markovich wrote on 01/07/12 at 02:23:16:
Am I wrong that the long and the short of 1.f4 e5 is +=? That's what I've always thought. And why should it be otherwise, given that Black is a tempo short of a Staunton Gambit, which doesn't exactly strike terror into the hearts of 1...f5 players?

1.f4 weakens e3, and so the right reaction is 1...d5!


I also think the From is +=, but I don't claim to be an expert in this opening.
  

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Markovich
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Re: Concealed From
Reply #3 - 01/07/12 at 02:23:16
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Am I wrong that the long and the short of 1.f4 e5 is +=? That's what I've always thought. And why should it be otherwise, given that Black is a tempo short of a Staunton Gambit, which doesn't exactly strike terror into the hearts of 1...f5 players?

1.f4 weakens e3, and so the right reaction is 1...d5!
  

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MNb
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Re: Concealed From
Reply #2 - 01/06/12 at 21:56:31
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Fllg wrote on 01/06/12 at 14:34:40:
Interestingly Stefan Bücker has expanded the original article by Hergert writing about 1.f4 e5 2.fxe5 d6 3.exd6 Bxd6 4.Nf3 Nf6! which he considers to be okay for Black.

Not, it isn't. 5.Nc3! (Larsen) promises some advantage acc. to the article.
  

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Fllg
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Re: Concealed From
Reply #1 - 01/06/12 at 14:34:40
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If I remember correctly in one of the last editions of "Kaissiber" was an article where the conclusion was that white is better after 4.h3.

EDIT:

It´s in Kaissiber 36. The Author Volker Hergert concludes that White gets a clear advantage 4.h3! d6 5.d4 dxe5 6.d5 e4!? 7.dxc6! Bd6 8.Qd2!

The issue contains a long article about various forms of the From. Interestingly Stefan Bücker has expanded the original article by Hergert writing about 1.f4 e5 2.fxe5 d6 3.exd6 Bxd6 4.Nf3 Nf6! which he considers to be okay for Black.

Maybe Stefan himself can say something about new developments if he reads this thread.
« Last Edit: 01/06/12 at 15:36:08 by Fllg »  
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Jonathan Tait
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Concealed From
01/06/12 at 14:23:38
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1 f4 e5 2 fxe5 Nc6!? – what's the theory like on this nowadays? It's been twenty years since I studied it, but I've recently played it in two games as Black and reached very bad positions indeed:



  

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