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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The best analysis program? (Read 147906 times)
an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #171 - 06/04/19 at 03:22:18
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TopNotch wrote on 06/04/19 at 01:58:39:
I honestly don't understand why they even offer blas, opencl, its a joke.
Not a joke. It's a software experiment, they are trying not to limit the target hardware. Alphazero didn't run on stock x86 hardware, and lc0 need not, either. Some systems don't have graphics at all, but sufficiently powerful CPUs (or TPUs in Alphazero's case) can still make it interesting. Who knows what kind of crazy homegrown system someone might want to try it on?
  
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TopNotch
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #170 - 06/04/19 at 01:58:39
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I've tried this and essentially LC0 is utterly useless running on windows unless you have a Nvidia Graphics Card. I honestly don't understand why they even offer blas, opencl, its a joke.
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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Pawnpusher
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #169 - 06/03/19 at 14:46:16
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Yes, I think for cuda to work you have to have some sort of Nvidia GPU, other GPUs use open cl, and if no graphics card the blas. I think that is how it works.
  
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tony37
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #168 - 06/03/19 at 08:09:44
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Leon_Trotsky wrote on 06/02/19 at 22:37:00:
I followed the instructions, but still analysis window is totally blank  Shocked

for Windows there are three versions (blas, opencl and cuda), did you try all three?
the blas and opencl versions are likely to be very slow, so don't expect too much
  
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #167 - 06/03/19 at 00:41:47
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I just used the directions from the Github LcO site and it did take a couple of tries, I also looked at the Youtube site quoted above, and got it going. I looked on a computer chess forum. It was originally called Talkchess because I am trying to find the best settings for my GPU. It was mostly interesting and somewhat useful. Hope this helps.
  
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Leon_Trotsky
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #166 - 06/02/19 at 22:37:00
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I followed the instructions, but still analysis window is totally blank  Shocked

  
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #165 - 06/02/19 at 18:24:53
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@Leon_Trotsky - this may be of assistance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2SB4Z-o5ZQ
  
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tony37
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #164 - 06/02/19 at 16:04:57
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update: I'm really not sure this weights file with 4305 elo is actually better than more recent ones about 3300
the first one gives some really weird evaluation in the following position, it initially thinks white is better there (the more recent file doesn't)

* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
*

update2: Now I finally got it: self-play elo doesn't seem to be important, you have to look at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XSJiCcQpCLv0fNwrUn7jXjdkZFU63YFEWpdXv6dS... (I seem to remember this site was down when I first looked there)
So network number 42000 is strongest available for now
  
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tony37
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #163 - 06/02/19 at 10:29:37
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Pawnpusher wrote on 06/01/19 at 18:31:26:
I am using Lc0, I'm sort of a gamer so I have an NVidia gpu. I understand that the better the machine the better Leela works and mine is by no means state of the art. But it is the way to go currently, it does awesome analysis. I think the weights file (?) I downloaded is about 3300 elo? It is a very positional engine, and supposedly misses some tactics, but I haven't noticed.

I finally found out some older weights files have much highter elo than recent ones, the highest elo I found is 4305 (date: 2018-08-22 03:52:53 at http://lczero.org/networks). These elos probably shouldn't be compared to other rankings. No idea why recent files have much lower elo...

Leon_Trotsky wrote on 06/02/19 at 05:38:25:
I am having a problem setting Leela on ChessBase 15. How did you make it work there to analyse  ¿

does it work in another program like Arena?
  
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Leon_Trotsky
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #162 - 06/02/19 at 05:38:25
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I am having a problem setting Leela on ChessBase 15. How did you make it work there to analyse  ¿
  
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #161 - 06/01/19 at 18:31:26
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I am using Lc0, I'm sort of a gamer so I have an NVidia gpu. I understand that the better the machine the better Leela works and mine is by no means state of the art. But it is the way to go currently, it does awesome analysis. I think the weights file (?) I downloaded is about 3300 elo? It is a very positional engine, and supposedly misses some tactics, but I haven't noticed.
  
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tony37
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #160 - 05/19/19 at 11:01:01
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Leon_Trotsky wrote on 05/18/19 at 09:07:42:
I tried download Leela in https://github.com/LeelaChessZero/lc0/releases but engine analysis not showing in ChessBase 15 when loaded.

The small window where engine evaluation should show is totally blank on my computer.

did you follow the instructions at https://github.com/LeelaChessZero/lc0/wiki/Getting-Started ?
first you need a 'weights'-file from http://lczero.org/networks, presumably one with high elo, and then you need to open the lc0.exe file to initialise the configuration (this takes a while)
also important is to have the right drivers for the GPU (for Cuda or for Opencl), this took me a whole day to get this right at my new Ubuntu laptop, on an old Windows 7 laptop the lc0 program just crashed after a while
now that it's finally working I have to say it's pretty slow and I barely can move my mouse while it's analysing, I suppose you need a GPU with Cuda support (I have to use Opencl) for it to make any sense using Leela for analysis

edit: when I use 'blas' as backend instead of 'opencl' (so using CPU iso GPU), I can actually use my computer while analysing but the engine is of course even slower then
for info: I have AMD A6-9220 radeon r4 as processor with AMD Stoney as graphics card, so new but not very strong
« Last Edit: 05/19/19 at 12:40:56 by tony37 »  
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #159 - 05/18/19 at 17:38:07
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Has anyone who installed Leela have any feedback on the evaluation function? 

Despite computers being so much stronger than us, it seems like it can be tough some time to use them to assess if a decision was "practical" in a game you made or if you should go for a line where you are defending ... it might be a draw but if one side needs to be much more precise from a human perspective, this can be a problem.

I saw some comment that AlphaZero plays at IM strength with "search turned off" and so I wonder if it is "more human" and easier to learn from.

I don't know how similar Leela plays to Alpha?

  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #158 - 05/18/19 at 14:28:10
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http://blog.lczero.org/2018/09/guide-setting-up-leela-on-chess-gui.html

Quote:
This means that in order to run Leela in full strength you will need a GPU preferably one that supports CUDA.
Running it on GPU with non CUDA Lc0 binaries means you will get many times worse performance.
Even worse running it on a CPU like normal traditional engines run, means you will get many many times worse performance.
Neural net weights in order to run fast enough they need a GPU. On CPUs they are slow as turtles.

My laptop GPU is non CUDA, so I would have to buy new hardware, otherwise Stockfish is stronger. I'm too frugal for that, but also, I honestly don't see why I should care. In most cases I just use whatever engine is available in the GUI of the moment. That might be Shredder, Stockfish (10 or 9 or even 8), Crafty, Fritz.

My old car already goes faster than the speed limit, I don't care that a Tesla can go from 0 to 100 km/h in 2.3 seconds. If you point out that I would care in a race, my answer is that in the race we won't be using the car...
  
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #157 - 05/18/19 at 09:07:42
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I tried download Leela in https://github.com/LeelaChessZero/lc0/releases but engine analysis not showing in ChessBase 15 when loaded.

The small window where engine evaluation should show is totally blank on my computer.
  
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