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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The best analysis program? (Read 216577 times)
an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #189 - 08/18/23 at 03:44:00
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Quote:
Glenn Flear wrote:
Every opening where White has a space advantage involving a pawn on d5 (whether passed or not) are over-hyped by the engines...

That sounds right. I said something similar on chess.com (yetanotheraoc is me):

Quote:
Engines love a space advantage like the one after d4-d5, but that's just prejudice. An engine isn't a positional genius like Karpov. The point is, nowadays people analyze with an engine all the time, so you can expect to see d4-d5 played in more positions, even when it's not necessarily the best procedure.
https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/tension-in-the-centre-in-the-clo...

There is a corollary here: you can adopt a black repertoire based on one of these space-disadvantage structures and do well with them when your opponents over-estimate their chances. Preparing such an opening just requires some experience and judgment to know that position X at +1.05 is fine for black while position Y at +0.90 position is unacceptable.

I wouldn't be able to hold any of these positions against an engine, but that doesn't mean the evaluation is correct!
  
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FreeRepublic
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #188 - 08/17/23 at 22:24:48
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Glenn Flear in his August 2023 Daring Defense update:

"Time for a pronouncement: I have a theory! Every opening where White has a space advantage involving a pawn on d5 (whether passed or not) are over-hyped by the engines i.e. the silicon monster gives White as having a healthy plus when humans consider Black to be perfectly fine. Has anybody else noticed this?

Check out some main line King's Indians, Chigorin Ruy Lopezs, Benkos, Benonis and various Grünfelds involving a pawn on d5, and note what Stockfish 16 thinks. See what I mean!?"

It's hard to ignore computer evaluations. They evaluate so many positions, so quickly. Yet if there is a flaw in their evaluations, then you might be misled. One might be unduly pessimistic about playing the lines mentioned above with the Black pieces.
  
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Pawnpusher
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #187 - 06/13/19 at 10:54:55
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Has anyone tried to use chess position trainer and LcO?
  
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tony37
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #186 - 06/12/19 at 08:52:17
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after installing those drivers I couldn't boot into my system and had to revert to the older drivers (I probably should upgrade to Ubuntu 19.04 (update: this works fine with standard drivers; what also worked was installing the 5.1 kernel on 18.04, even without newer drivers))

there seems to be a bug in this thread where the latest post isn't always displayed
« Last Edit: 06/12/19 at 22:54:29 by tony37 »  
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #185 - 06/11/19 at 19:25:24
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Has anyone tried LeelaFish yet? I'd see it as Leela with Stockfish tactical blunder check enabled. Supposedly it's 30 elo higher than Leela alone. See https://github.com/killerducky/lc0/wiki/LeelaFish for more info, don't forget to  link 'AuxEngineFile' to Stockfish, otherwise it's just lc0 running.

Probably not important for most, but after installing the latest Linux drivers for my AMD GPU (from ppa:oibaf/graphics-drivers for those interested), my mouse isn't hanging anymore when I put lc0 on.
  
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Pawnpusher
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #184 - 06/06/19 at 22:09:18
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Ahh but the quest to optimize!!
  
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #183 - 06/06/19 at 07:55:38
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Pawnpusher wrote on 06/05/19 at 15:52:11:
Thanks guys, I get the eval better now. Does anyone know how to find the best settings for a GPU (nvidia 1060)?


Defaults are fine.
  
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #182 - 06/05/19 at 15:52:11
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Thanks guys, I get the eval better now. Does anyone know how to find the best settings for a GPU (nvidia 1060)?
  
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #181 - 06/05/19 at 08:53:48
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Pawnpusher wrote on 06/04/19 at 23:40:57:
I do use Cuda, the evaluation puzzles me. I am used to seeing scores far lower than LcO gives for positions. Have you noticed this?


The latest lc0 version has a re-scaled formula to convert winning percentage to centipawns. The scores are now much less extreme, and were calibrated to the average of Stockfish/Komodo scores in TCEC15, or something. So it's more comparable to a classic engine now.

I believe the one playing in TCEC had the old formula. You can change it in the settings.
  
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brabo
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #180 - 06/05/19 at 00:18:33
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Pawnpusher wrote on 06/04/19 at 23:40:57:
I do use Cuda, the evaluation puzzles me. I am used to seeing scores far lower than LcO gives for positions. Have you noticed this?

Yes it is explained at https://github.com/LeelaChessZero/lc0/wiki/Technical-Explanation-of-Leela-Chess-...
+3,36 would mean 90% probabily of a win for white.

For e.g. Houdini only +1,5 already means 90% probability of a win for white see http://www.cruxis.com/chess/houdini.htm

So you should make a conversion from 1 scale to another.
  
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brabo
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #179 - 06/05/19 at 00:18:15
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tony37 wrote on 06/04/19 at 23:26:56:
brabo wrote on 06/04/19 at 11:15:32:
tony37 wrote on 06/04/19 at 09:30:49:
ordo elo (or self-play elo) can be very misleading, as I wrote a few posts before
can I ask what AMD card you're using? probably way better than mine


My AMD FX(tm)-6300 6 core processor 3,5Ghz is configured with a Nvidia Geforce GTX 960. That is average nowadays.

but since you have an Nvidia card, you probably use the (fast) Cuda version of Lc0 after all
I think JFugre was talking about using the OpenCL version on an AMD graphics card like Radeon

No I am using the OpenCL version. When I try the Cuda version then the lc0 exe just closes without having done any computation. I thought it probably has to do with that I first have to install https://developer.nvidia.com/cuda-zone but then I get the message that I should also install the video studio to let it work properly. I also did that but it kept warning that the video studio is not ok so then I gave up before making some changes which I can't restore anymore afterwards.
  
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #178 - 06/04/19 at 23:40:57
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I do use Cuda, the evaluation puzzles me. I am used to seeing scores far lower than LcO gives for positions. Have you noticed this?
  
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tony37
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #177 - 06/04/19 at 23:26:56
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brabo wrote on 06/04/19 at 11:15:32:
tony37 wrote on 06/04/19 at 09:30:49:
ordo elo (or self-play elo) can be very misleading, as I wrote a few posts before
can I ask what AMD card you're using? probably way better than mine


My AMD FX(tm)-6300 6 core processor 3,5Ghz is configured with a Nvidia Geforce GTX 960. That is average nowadays.

but since you have an Nvidia card, you probably use the (fast) Cuda version of Lc0 after all
I think JFugre was talking about using the OpenCL version on an AMD graphics card like Radeon
  
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brabo
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #176 - 06/04/19 at 11:15:32
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tony37 wrote on 06/04/19 at 09:30:49:
ordo elo (or self-play elo) can be very misleading, as I wrote a few posts before
can I ask what AMD card you're using? probably way better than mine

Yes I also don't trust the ordo elo much. It is an indication but I consider the match much more valuable.

My AMD FX(tm)-6300 6 core processor 3,5Ghz is configured with a Nvidia Geforce GTX 960. That is average nowadays.
  
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #175 - 06/04/19 at 11:09:02
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Yes I think Tony37 is on point according to what I have read. If I understand it is not only the ELO of a network but the number of games (in other words the number of positions) in the network. I have an Nvidia Geforce 1060 card, and am looking to find the best settings as I read that LcO is sort of difficult to get optimized. Having said that I am impressed at the play of LcO.
  
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