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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The best analysis program? (Read 214858 times)
Jesse Gersenson
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #24 - 02/01/12 at 11:42:14
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trw wrote on 01/27/12 at 06:49:20:
As a correspondence player, I too highly recommend critter 1.4, also Komodo 3 (4 is out, but it costs money and its extremely buggy while it only boats 10 pt higher elo than 3).


On the rybka forums Komodo 4 gets high praise as an analysis engine. The main reason given is that it's got better positional understanding than the other engines.

I haven't seen any mention of bugs in Komodo 4 - and, as the webmaster of http://komodochess.com, I'm always on the look out for people mentioning bugs.
  
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #23 - 02/01/12 at 06:51:21
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 01/26/12 at 09:25:08:
Many thanks, Vass, Hacker and Vladimir. Now I've read about it, Houdini's Aquarium seems indeed promising, and as someone who spends lots of time with analyzing I should certainly try it. (I didn't try the first version of Aquarium, because in some blogs a bit too many flaws were discussed.)

In some cases (endings, KI positions and so on) Rybka had problems, e.g. in endings Deep Shredder was better. Other programs were useful, too, to get new ideas, so I'll gladly check your interesting suggestions, including Critter 1.4.


Hi Stefan,
             How are you?. Replying you after a long time. Read all the comments here.
Let me tell you few things. The topic is "Analysis programs" and not Analysis tools, let me first elaborate on the engines first.
The top 5 engines are good in analysing positions you want. All have their strength and weaknesses. Namely - Houdini 2.0c , Critter 1.4 , Stockfish 2.2.2 , Depp Rybka 4.1 and Komodo 4 MP(Yet to be released, now SP only)

Regarding feature rich it is Rybka 4.1. It supports Large pages, Preserve Analysis , Randomizer, Monte Carlo , Multipv_cp and 2048 cores in cpu.

Houdini too supports Large pages, Save Hash , Multipv_cp and 32 cores support with learning feature and Nalimov + Gaviota TBs support. But i find the learning feature a bit faulty in it.
The best learning feature is in Critter 1.4a which implements a session file. Very good for Deep Position Analysis and Backward Analysis in Fritz GUI if you know the right configuration settings.
Here is the link to Unofficial one -http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?w4x1kctds4oa9og

Unofficial, unsupported, and only 64bit Sse4 build:

- tweaked SMP implementation
- sligthly decreased Queen value
- time management: try avoiding blunders in sudden death games when in time trouble
- time management: fixed losing on time whith "ponder on" games on opponent's instant reply
- improved pawn blockage detection (3B4/1r2p3/r2p1p2/bkp1P1p1/1p1P1PPp/p1P4P/PP1K4/3B4 w - - 0 1)

The Stockfish 2.2.2 is good for analysis in IA but not feature rich. So you need a feature rich stockfish which is good for analysis.  Here is an Unofficial one.
Stockfish 2.1.1 PA GTB Gran2c - download http://www.open-chess.org/download/file.php?id=356]

The changes from Stockfish 2.1.1 include:

Preserve Analysis: Stockfish keeps in mind what you have analyzed and doesn't research it until you unload the engine. Perfect for backward propagation of scores and saving time for transpositions.

GTB: Allows the user to use Gaviota Tablebases in Stockfish.

Granularity=2: Allows Stockfish to have more precision on move scores, so that instead of 0.00 -> 0.04 -> 0.08 it goes 0.00 -> 0.01 -> 0.02.
Mac, Win32, Win64 & source included. Source maintained at: https://github.com/jeremybernstein/Stockfish_PA_GTB


The best GUI for Rybka is Aquarium because it uses its feature to the fullest.
Randomizer is good feature which I always use to get a General Idea of a position. Shared Analysis is another feature which is great with Deep Rybka 4.1 . If you haven't read then read here - http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5074]

You can do it manualy
Created a txt file  Deep Rybka 4 SSE42 x64.uci_b or Deep Rybka 4 x64.uci_b and type the following lines.

[ENGINE]
Parameter=%PID %CPUS
[OPTIONSA]
Preserve Analysis=true

And save the file with extension .uci_b in the same folder where the chessabase saves the uci file in appadata/roaming/chessbase/Engines UCI.
While analysing Just right click in engine window and Shared Analysis.

Another feature you can use in Aquarium is the Delta which uses MultiPV_cp for this (UCI3 support).
MultiPV_cp option is to limit multi-PV analysis to moves within a range of the best move.

I use 'delta' in infinite analysis.  Like set delta to 25 and variations to 200.  Then when you run the engine it shows the top move and all other moves that are up to 0.25 pawn worse.  In some positions it will show only one move but in other positions it may show many.  I spend a lot of time running analysis and setting variations to 5 (without delta) wastes a lot of time if there is only one good move.  On the other hand in some positions there may be 10 moves that are all good and I would only see 5 of them.  That's why you will  find delta a great feature.

Note on using Critter in Backward Analysis and in DPA
In IA use Always Resolve Scores and Depth Strategy (say =10) and this seems to be the preferred settings.

With a fast machine and Critter's new session file,  you can run with depth 25, with +1 at the root, with a branching factor of 4, 4, 3, 2, an analysis length of 7, and a window of 30, cutting bad moves.

Hope this helps you and all. After trying please answer me if its helpful to you.

Regards
Om
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #22 - 01/31/12 at 08:24:35
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 01/30/12 at 13:57:58:
I think I should make this thread 'sticky' so it always remains at the top of the first page, as the best analysis program will always be of interest. Anyone disagree?



Done.

My main problem with sticky topics is that they too get ignored. Let's see what happens to this one.
  
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #21 - 01/30/12 at 19:10:30
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Does any program here run on a MAC?
  
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #20 - 01/30/12 at 13:57:58
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I think I should make this thread 'sticky' so it always remains at the top of the first page, as the best analysis program will always be of interest. Anyone disagree?
  
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #19 - 01/27/12 at 06:49:20
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As a correspondence player, I too highly recommend critter 1.4, also Komodo 3 (4 is out, but it costs money and its extremely buggy while it only boats 10 pt higher elo than 3).
  
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #18 - 01/26/12 at 09:25:08
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Many thanks, Vass, Hacker and Vladimir. Now I've read about it, Houdini's Aquarium seems indeed promising, and as someone who spends lots of time with analyzing I should certainly try it. (I didn't try the first version of Aquarium, because in some blogs a bit too many flaws were discussed.)

In some cases (endings, KI positions and so on) Rybka had problems, e.g. in endings Deep Shredder was better. Other programs were useful, too, to get new ideas, so I'll gladly check your interesting suggestions, including Critter 1.4.
  
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #17 - 01/25/12 at 22:51:17
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 01/25/12 at 19:19:33:
Maybe it is time to look for alternatives - thx Vass for your good overview. Presently I am still using Rybka. It doesn't have the highest rating, but what Rybka does well is "backwards analysis". Other programs which I had used were forgetting their results. At least that was my experience.

Is one of the recent top programs particularly good in "backwards analysis"?


The commercial 2.0 release of Houdini implemented a few analysis features along those lines with an option to save a persistent hash, and a rudimentary position learning.

The free Critter 1.4 also has similar analysis features with its session files and related options.

I'd say to get Critter and play around with it to see if it suits your needs. Turn on 'Use session file' and 'Resolve score drops,' and change 'SF strategy' to depth. One note, though, is that Critter's session files are apparently incompatible with Aquarium's IDeA if you happen to use that, so turn them off if you do.
  
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #16 - 01/25/12 at 21:41:36
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@Vass - Thanks for your instructive overview!

Vass wrote on 01/25/12 at 20:25:18:
... What is more, it's (aquarium) an excellent GUI for all the correspondent chess players, though not intuitive at all. One has to read many help pages and experiment with before becoming good at operating with it. And costs much..  Wink


Have used Aquarium for more than 2 years and can really testify to both statements: A lot of work to utilize but great GUI and well worth the struggles to learn.
  

What kind of proof is that?
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #15 - 01/25/12 at 20:25:18
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Thank you, Stefan! You're welcome!
I think the so-called "backwards analysis" depends more from the GUI you use than from the chess engine that makes it. Of course, Rybka 4 as balanced as it is, can be considered as one of the best chess engines to do that properly. Anyway, I'm not the only one that thinks the best GUI for making "backwards analysis" is Aquarium's IDEA. The previous version was Rybka's Aquarium and now Houdini's Aquarium is available. What is more, it's an excellent GUI for all the correspondent chess players, though not intuitive at all. One has to read many help pages and experiment with before becoming good at operating with it. And costs much..  Wink
  
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #14 - 01/25/12 at 19:19:33
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Maybe it is time to look for alternatives - thx Vass for your good overview. Presently I am still using Rybka. It doesn't have the highest rating, but what Rybka does well is "backwards analysis". Other programs which I had used were forgetting their results. At least that was my experience.

Is one of the recent top programs particularly good in "backwards analysis"?
  
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #13 - 01/25/12 at 18:19:23
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Well, I am a member of a Russian computer chess forum. Many of its members do various tests on their monster machines - I7 x64 Win and alike.. But all these tests are on short time controls, i.e. irrelevant to the real power of the known chess engines. So to speak, not one of these members can state which engine is best for a long time analysis. They say that only a test in not less than a 1000 games can be real. What is more, such test has to go on a longer time control than just for 2 hours for 40 moves or so. And I think they're right.  Wink
The fact that Houdini 2.0c (the last version) is best on short time controls doesn't mean that this engine is best for analysis at all. And all the rating lists are based on games played on short time controls.
I think one has to analyse with more than one engine - for example: Houdini 2.0 and Rybka 4.1 because they seem to have different programming codes. What I mean is...if I analyse with Houdini 2.0 and Critter 1.4a (which seems to be a very good engine, too) both give me almost the same moves as best. While Ivanhoe, Komodo and Stockfish are different. Some say Rybka is a clone of Fruit 2.1 though improved.. Anyway, one has to find two engines that give different moves as best in a position in say 25 plys depth and experiment with the results. After all, the human knowledge will prevail in giving the best evaluation.  Wink
As for the openings all of these engines are of no help except in some specific cases when tactics prevail. And no engine can be useful for a good evaluation of an endgame if there are no endgame tablebases installed on your computer. One has to know that the endgame tablebases have to be activated in the middlegame analysis where the chess engines often count long lines till deep endgames. Some correspondent chess players forget it and often struggle for that.  Wink
What is known for now:
1. Houdini 2.0c is best on short time controls. It counts fast and gathers depth in plys very fast. It prunes lines recognized as bad better than others, i.e. its speed.
2. Houdini 1.5a (free engine) - almost as good as Houdini 2.0c. I think it's better for analyses because it doesn't prune so easy lines recognized as bad.
3. Critter 1.4a (free engine) - some say it's better in closed positions and good at endgames without tablebases. It counts very fast too, but not as fast as Houdini 2.0.
4. Rybka 4.1 is finishing the Big Four as the most balanced one in all kind of positions. Some say when it states depth 18 it means depth 21 on other chess engines (i.e. +3 plys real depth).
5. Komodo 4 (goin' commercial) is the newest version and some say it deserves attention because of Larry Kaufman's original dynamic evaluation of pieces' activity.
6. Strelka 5.1 (free engine) - Yuri Osipov's no multi-variations' engine. Very fast and somehow original but with wrong digit evaluations (for example +1.47 in a += position) which can be trusted only for a suggestion of the best move. Some say it's rewritten Rybka from inside out.  Smiley
7. Stockfish 2.2 or Ivanhoe 9.. - both good for a second analysing engine.
8. The new Robbolito 0.10 SMP - the last version of a legendary free engine - a programming (Ippolit) code which was a source for many of above-mentioned and alike. Now good as a second analysing engine, too. It doesn't use endgame tablebases though and the author says it is improved in endgames.  Huh
Anyway, my modest recommendation is to use Houdini 1.5a as a first analyzing engine (as I said it doesn't prune lines as easy as Houdini 2.0c) and Rybka 4.1 as a second analysing engine. And in some positions you can try a third (I can say - original) engine like Strelka 5.1 or Komodo 4 or Robbolito 0.10 just to look for a new idea or something..  Cheesy
  
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #12 - 01/25/12 at 12:50:43
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Are there any engine that is betterhers in the endgame than the others or is Houdini "best" in all phases of the game?
  

What kind of proof is that?
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #11 - 01/24/12 at 22:00:38
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I couldn't resist one last post here for a site that appears to be very informative at a glance:

http://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Engine+Rating+Lists
  
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Re: The best analysis program?
Reply #10 - 01/24/12 at 21:44:07
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