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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Dutch Defence 2.Bg5 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 (Read 6593 times)
Bibs
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Re: Dutch Defence 2.Bg5 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7
Reply #11 - 10/11/16 at 22:46:42
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Perhaps you can offer follow up ideas as to how the game continues after 4.e3. Offering this not to be critical, but to help ideas and discussion along -  offering just single moves may not take discussion too far....
  
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buddho
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Re: Dutch Defence 2.Bg5 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7
Reply #10 - 10/11/16 at 17:59:43
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What about the move 4.e3!

I just faced this and after ..Nf6 got into some trouble. A quick look with the engine, and it likes the move a lot.
  
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Mark Eldridge
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Re: Dutch Defence 2.Bg5 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7
Reply #9 - 02/25/12 at 00:06:55
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Your correct Kaufman does give 3.Bg7 4.h4 as best line but does not say anything if black does c5 next move.
  
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CaptainCarrot
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Re: Dutch Defence 2.Bg5 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7
Reply #8 - 02/24/12 at 20:57:03
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Kaufman favours 3...Bg7 4.h4 and after giving some examples concludes that white is better
  
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bragesjo
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Re: Dutch Defence 2.Bg5 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7
Reply #7 - 02/24/12 at 13:55:32
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I have not got that book (I think there is at least 2 editions) but I am positive that McDonald book  follows a black Topalov game in this line where white won when 9 .. a5 was proposed as black initiative and computer check indicates that black is slightly better, look quick at Houdini 5 minutes it is =+ but is does not prove anything since it within errors of margin.

There are several reasons why black should prefere Nh6 immidetly. One key reasons can be found in a New in Chess yearbook where they did not play e4 but pawn to e3 at some point when whites key idea (dont remember excatly what the point was, have not look at it since I ditched the dutch and I dont remember what number or where I put the book) works much better if the black Knight is not at f7 (dont remember why). An other reason is that in e4 line, after fxe4 Nxe4 d5 white can also retreat hes knight at g3 when Nh6 (like I played in my last dutch game) does not work becouse of Nh5 (a move my opponnet also missed, instead an equal position appeared that I lost after a blunder 20 moves later).
  
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Re: Dutch Defence 2.Bg5 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7
Reply #6 - 02/24/12 at 12:53:34
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"A Killer Chess Opening Repertoire" (which is more Summerscale's book than Johnsen's) mentions 3...Nh6 and gives the game Summerscale-Rawlinson 2002. Following the Nalbandian-Topalov 1993 game, after 7...Nh6 it gives:
"8.h4 Nf7 9.Nh3 Qd6 10.Qd2 e5 11.0-0-0 Nxg5?
11...0-0 is better. White hasn’t found anything really convincing then:"
(followed by some Kindermann analysis and game fragments with 12.Be3 and 12.dxe5).

"Win with the Stonewall Dutch" as one might expect is more detailed in these lines. However, it may be worth noting that after 3.Nc3 it says that "Black’s most accurate move-order may well be 3...Nh6!?, intending ...Nf7 before developing the bishop." (without any further detail).
  

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bragesjo
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Re: Dutch Defence 2.Bg5 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7
Reply #5 - 02/24/12 at 10:25:44
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About Johnssen book, I dont have it myself but I have read it since a friend owns it. He does not mention a major improvment over that Topalov game that McDonalds old "Starting out the Dutch" covered and that was the move a5 when McDonald assest that black gets an initiative and when I computer checked it a few years ago Rybka clearly favored black.
  
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TN
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Re: Dutch Defence 2.Bg5 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7
Reply #4 - 02/24/12 at 10:12:28
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Johnsen considered that line to offer good chances for a White edge in 'An Attacking Chess Repertoire for White' (via. the 3.Nd2 move order). But further tests are still needed for a final verdict.

@EricTheRed

I like 6.e4 for White after 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.h4 h6 5.Bf4 d6, but 5...Nf6 looks like a better move. Then I think 6.e3 d6 7.Bc4 c6 8.Nf3 e6 9.Bd3 0-0 10.Qd2 Ng4 11.0-0-0 Qe7 12.e4 e5 13.de5 de5 14.Bh2 is +=, but obviously this isn't forced play from either side.
  

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bragesjo
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Re: Dutch Defence 2.Bg5 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7
Reply #3 - 02/24/12 at 09:58:34
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I am not shure if 4 e4 is best move. After fxe4 5 Nxe4 d5 theory proposed 6 Nc5 b6 7 Nb3. Now black can play Nh6 followed by Nf7 and pawn to a5 with a good game.

EDIT I also think that Nh6 at once i more accurate than Bg7.
  
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TN
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Re: Dutch Defence 2.Bg5 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7
Reply #2 - 02/24/12 at 02:05:39
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Moderator's note: I deleted the post in the other thread and retitled this thread to make it more specific.
  

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Re: Dutch Defence 2.Bg5 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7
Reply #1 - 02/23/12 at 21:16:43
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I'm no expert, but I think 4.e4 is probably best.  After 4.h4 h6 5.Bf4 Nf6 or 5...d6 the Bishop on f4 and pawn on h4 look misplaced to me; White won't get to open the h-file and the Bishop can be chased with moves ...e7-e5, ...Nh5, etc.
« Last Edit: 02/24/12 at 02:05:01 by TN »  
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Dutch Defence 2.Bg5 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7
02/23/12 at 20:42:33
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What do you think is the best line after 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7

I believe 4. h4 is best what do you experts think?
« Last Edit: 02/24/12 at 02:04:48 by TN »  
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